Tune needed or not?

imcool · Mar 29, 2023

After DNA air filter upgrade is there need for a dyno tune or not?
I am getting mixed answers on this.
some saying TUne is must
some saying ECU will retune itself as there is o2 lambda oxygen sensor in the bike.

I collect some information from the service manual about the o2 sensor.
Can any one with expertise on this help?

This is new air filter

I went through rocket factory service manual and found that its supposed to throw code if bike running lean?

I have after market slip on with o2 sensor fitted on it and no cat.
I also have @Penner map installed.

thankyou

R-III-R Turbo · Mar 29, 2023

So the new one flows 29% more air than stock filter - do we know what flow rate the engine requires and what the stock filter can manage?
I doubt the stock filter is much of a restriction - that would be quite a rookie error by Triumph.

Let's say engine inducts 300cfm at max rpm and wide open throttle, and the stock filter somehow can only manage 200cfm before causing a massive spike in differential pressure and caving in... and that this new filter then could do 29% more aka manage the full requirement of 300cfm, then the fuel map would need update or it would be so lean the bike would barely run.

All these are imo over the standard filter is that they are reusable..

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but misinformation doesn't help anyone.
This is just clever marketing really. The filter likely does indeed flow 29% more, but the bike can't make use of it all, without more modifications to enable increased airflow e.g. exhaust, cams and so on.

It "may" make use of some of it, but the only way to know fo sho is to put it on a dyno with the 2 different filters back to back.
Most likely scenario is the gain will be do negligible that you couldn't be sure there was one, imo.

TURBO200R4 · Mar 29, 2023

R-III-R Turbo said:
So the new one flows 29% more air than stock filter - do we know what flow rate the engine requires and what the stock filter can manage?
I doubt the stock filter is much of a restriction - that would be quite a rookie error by Triumph.

Let's say engine inducts 300cfm at max rpm and wide open throttle, and the stock filter somehow can only manage 200cfm before causing a massive spike in differential pressure and caving in... and that this new filter then could do 29% more aka manage the full requirement of 300cfm, then the fuel map would need update or it would be so lean the bike would barely run.

All these are imo over the standard filter is that they are reusable..

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but misinformation doesn't help anyone.
This is just clever marketing really. The filter likely does indeed flow 29% more, but the bike can't make use of it all, without more modifications to enable increased airflow e.g. exhaust, cams and so on.

It "may" make use of some of it, but the only way to know fo sho is to put it on a dyno with the 2 different filters back to back.
Most likely scenario is the gain will be do negligible that you couldn't be sure there was one, imo.

it is allways a pleasure to read your threads you have the experience and a good way of explaining it so that people can understand
when i saw the 29% gain the first thing i thought was if it is running 20,000 rpm
i guess my opinion is if it was good b4 then it will be good with the change.

imcool · Mar 29, 2023

R-III-R Turbo said:
So the new one flows 29% more air than stock filter - do we know what flow rate the engine requires and what the stock filter can manage?
I doubt the stock filter is much of a restriction - that would be quite a rookie error by Triumph.

Let's say engine inducts 300cfm at max rpm and wide open throttle, and the stock filter somehow can only manage 200cfm before causing a massive spike in differential pressure and caving in... and that this new filter then could do 29% more aka manage the full requirement of 300cfm, then the fuel map would need update or it would be so lean the bike would barely run.

All these are imo over the standard filter is that they are reusable..

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but misinformation doesn't help anyone.
This is just clever marketing really. The filter likely does indeed flow 29% more, but the bike can't make use of it all, without more modifications to enable increased airflow e.g. exhaust, cams and so on.

It "may" make use of some of it, but the only way to know fo sho is to put it on a dyno with the 2 different filters back to back.
Most likely scenario is the gain will be do negligible that you couldn't be sure there was one, imo.

thanks so much for descriptive reply, the only reason I ask to tune the ecu for new air filter is because i am worried if I am unknowingly running too lean or rich and causing some issues to engine.

Neville Lush · Mar 29, 2023

The O2 sensor works in the closed loop area to ensure the bike is running at emissions value in that area. It does jack ______ in the rest of the map. If you can feel a difference in the bike after fitting the filter, then get it tuned. If the mixture is corrected to suit, the bike will run better.

dougl · Mar 29, 2023

Aftermarket slip on. So you still have the cat? That would be the biggest restriction in the exhaust. If your intake was less restrictive and your exhaust was also less restrictive, you might need more fuel. That was definitely the case for my 2007 RIII. Richard Albans said the headers were the biggest restriction on the stock bike.

Tal · Mar 30, 2023

My thoughts are if you have improved the air intake and also the exhaust outlet then yes...get it at least on a dyno so you can see what the air fuel ratio is showing...it may be fine but this will show if you need to tickle the tune.

20R3GT · Mar 30, 2023

Back in days my VROD muscle has K&N filter, Power Commander and 2-1 V&H exhaust and I was tuned in !
I ask tuner if it 100% must??
His answer was YES!! If you change one side air filter or exhaust ECU has ability to correct air fuel ratio on its own!!!! But if you change both than 100% need tune because AFR will be to Lean and you burn the pistons!!!

imcool · Mar 30, 2023

dougl said:
Aftermarket slip on. So you still have the cat? That would be the biggest restriction in the exhaust. If your intake was less restrictive and your exhaust was also less restrictive, you might need more fuel. That was definitely the case for my 2007 RIII. Richard Albans said the headers were the biggest restriction on the stock bike.

no cat, I have only competition werkes.

dougl · Mar 30, 2023

imcool said:
no cat, I have only competition werkes.

This is the before and after dyno charts for my 2007 RIII Classic with filters on the throttle bodies and full Jardine exhaust. The before tune was the stock TOR with cat removed. The before A/F was 15 in spots. It ran pretty well but hot. You should get yours checked if you can.

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