suggestions for getting dealer to fix bike ?

travelguy

Turbocharged
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
running into a problem with the dealer on repairing bike.
the scoop is.. have 3 kn's, secondarys removed, custom exhaust, removed and plugged evaporation canistor.
bike has 1500 miles and is in for 2nd warranty prob.
mods have been inplace for about 500 miles.
dyno'd last week no probs.
3 days later acts like it's hitting the rev limiter at 5k
next day go to start acts like trying to fire on only 2 cynds.. check all connections etc. re load 20050 stock tune to make sure no probs.. samething.
tow to dealer he has for 3 days.. no calls .. go and see the serv manager. he says #3 fi not "working". they don't know why but they are "concerned" about mods i did. wtf i suggest he swap injectors and he says they did that but still prob. maybe ecu or ground to ecu. i say if 1/2 working etc and all other elect. on bike functions how is it ground to ecu ? dumb look in response. tries to tell me evap/sec removal maybe causing prob... ya right, can hear step motor when key on and evap syst affect opening and closing of inject.. nice try... i tell him to get ecu from another bike and try it.. he says they are "sacred" that one will be "fried" by my bike.
the bike is in his words sitting till they can figure it out..
anyway to contact triumph to light a fire under these guys or any other suggestions ? i know i've got them pissed now.. i gave them the "tech" post on how to fix the fuel light correctly this time.
sam
 

Pig9r

Living Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
4,852
Location
Kansas City, MO USA
As you already know nothing you have done is going to fry the ECU, swapping ECUs isn't going to fry the other either. Look at how many around here have the same mods. Sounds like your dealer doesn't like warranty work especially for people that will double check and expect the job to be done right-- and it appears they are making excuses ahead of time.

Did you double check the tune that you loaded to make sure it was correct?

Did it throw the check engine light?
 

travelguy

Turbocharged
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
hey p9, didn't cause check light to come on.. i thankfully re loaded the 20050 stock tune from tb just cuz i thought they might try this crap. he has no explaination how i could have caused a problem in the ecu with JUST the # 3 injector and doesn't know i have tune boy but i think they are stalling trying to come up with some reasoning to blame it on me...they keep asking me what other mods i have done. they even switched 3 & 2 injector to make sure that wasn't the problem.. well ok that's one "hard" way to check an injector. given that i smelled a lot of gas when trying to crank it over just glancing at the service manual tells me # 3 is running in an open circuit.
these are the same idiots that used a wooden stick, made numerous marks on it and rode my bike for 85 miles to then tell me the gas light is coming on when it should... aahhh no it's coming on at 3.3 gallons not 1.5.. i gave the service manager the print out put up on tnet explaining how to PROPERLY adjust the light so we will see if they can even get that right now. 4 days now and nothing figured out. worse part is $100 towing and i rented a f....n harley to go on a club ride. bent a push rod on that pos so that really put me in a bad mood.
think i'll trailer the bike to another t dealer and go to every moto guzzi,triumph,kawasaki and victory site and let everyone in so. cal know not to buy a bike there.
you know **** happens with anything mechanical and after riding the harlet i wouldn't own another bike than the r3 even if i keep having breakage, but stupidity really pisses me off.
 

Pig9r

Living Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
4,852
Location
Kansas City, MO USA
Did they at least hook their datatool up to it?

By the way they sound I would definately get it out of there and somewhere else.

You would think that if the #3 is not firing the ecu would throw a trouble code if it was working properly.
 

travelguy

Turbocharged
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
i unfortuently didn't ask him what if any trouble codes they pulled. he did mention that they have all the T tools and diagnostics and their mech are trained in then. just that they can't figure it out and therefore it just sitting there.. wtf .. this stuff is checkable w?o the T tools. like i said they actually swapped injectors to check that.. i know the t tool gives them the voltage/resistance etc. on each injector. but hey they can knock themselves out.
 

Toystoretom

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
2,451
I haven't had to troubleshoot the fuel injection on a Rocket yet, and even though it is OBD II compatable, it has been simplified for use in this application and isn't real sophisticated.A lot of problems pop up without throwing a check engine light. Here are some thoughts...

Have them check the fuel pressure. It almost sounds like your complaint of bouncing off of the rev limiter could be a symptom of fuel starvation. The number three cylinder is the last one on the fuel rail and there may be very little fuel to work with after numbers one and two are done with the supply. The fuel sock in the gas tank may be plugged up with wood splinters (why would you do that?). That was a joke...

Failing that... I have no idea if the fuel injection is sequential, it very well may not be. That would mean that all three injectors fire at the same time, this is a very common setup in the automotive world. Whether it is or isn't, there is a little trick you can play. Disconnect injector number three and lay the plug to one side. Run a set of jumper wires from ingector number two's wiring harness to injector number three and try running number two and number three off of number two's pulse. If number three starts to work, I would look at the wiring harness for the injectors.

OK... now you made me get the shop manual out. Keeping in mind paragraph three above..All three injectors are fed a positive 12 volts from the ECM but each has a separate ground that is supplied by the ECM. The 12 volt positive feed wire is a single wire that comes out of the ECM and is SPLICED out to three separate feed wires, one to each injector. I hate splices. Test lights and noids are of little help here, you may be getting 12 volts in the number three feed wire but not enough amps to fire the injector. Sooo... if number three is now working with the jumper wires from number two but it won't work with its own connector try this...

Plug back in number three's connector. Run a jumper wire from number two's 12 volt feed to number three's 12 volt feed wire. If number three now works, you have a bad splice in the hot wire that feeds number three. If it doesn't work the power transistor in the ECM that switches on and off the ground may be fried. Before you condem the ECM you have to check that ground wire for continuity from the Number three injector to the ECM.

Also look very closely at connector number 21... the fuel injection subharness connector. I would unplug this and tweak all the pins in that. Connectors are notorious for having the little pins in them loose electrical contact and that could be killing both the power and ground to the injectors.

There also could be some sort of freaky problem like a chipped tooth on the crank that the crank sensor can no longer read for number three and wierd crap like that... but I really doubt it. Most of these problems are electrcal, I'd wager to say maybe as high as 95% of all fuel injection problems are wiring harness issues...

Your dealer may be frustrated because the Rocket is a limited production bike full of unknown electronics. One of his guys that has some electrical experience is just going to have to sort it out. If they have no one there that has an electrcal background you are in trouble..
 

Toystoretom

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
2,451
In my above post... please refer to the shop manual for the color codes for the 12 volt hot wire and the three different injector grounds. If you are unsure how to identify these you probably shouldn't be working on this... you don't want to cross these when running jumpers... ect...
 

travelguy

Turbocharged
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
thanks for the advise tom, i'd check it myself but these guys i'm sure would say that i then screwed it up. i've printed your post and will take it to them tomorrow.
sam
 

travelguy

Turbocharged
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
just got back from dealer.. they reset low fuel sensor as per the t rat post and low and behold bike is running now... don't know what they found/did but they are saying the map sensor was bad causing no start.. still haven't tacked 5 k cut out yet.
didn't know map sensor could cause a no start.. think i'll cap it when it gets home and see what happens.. since they had been in fuel tank b/4 i'm kinda leary of what really is going on.
 

Toystoretom

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
2,451
That's bogus... the map sensor on this bike is pretty much used to fine tune the idle...

They found something in the gas tank that they screwed up before... they probably broke off the fuel pickup or something like that when they tried to adjust your float earlier.

Whatever it was... I hope its fixed...
 

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