power commander tables help

[oczad]

Hi. I don't have a R3, but i have a 2010 thunderbird and i thought maybe i could find an answer here since i know some of you use power commanders. My bike doesn't have one, but i used tuneecu to import the PCV fuel tables into a HEX map (same base map he used in his ECU to tune it) of the tors tune for my model. I've done cat delete and tors and filter and have used many maps from others including those made by importing PCV tables like this one. This is the best it has ever run and best MPG to date, but i fear it's running much too lean. I got the PCV tune from a guy with my same setup and model which he made by running the bike for 2 years with PCV and autotune. Also, i am running PCV optimizers in place of the stock sensors like his PCV is setup. Power is fantastic and even better without the optimizers, but it runs very lean without them judging by several factors. With them in it seems quite perfect, but i DID finally edit the negative cells that were high and enriched them by 50%. So for example that extreme -56 is now -23. It runs cooler and great like this but i still fear it may be lean because even after the fueling tweaks the numbers look much leaner than most maps i have seen. (you can google PCV tables and click images and see tons of them) The below tables show a lot of very lean cells, some extreme, and i've compared to other PCV tables and only one i have seen is even close to being so lean. like i said, i have edited it so what you are seeing is the tune as he sent it to me. Byut half the negative numbers and you'll see it's still quite lean compared to other PCV tables.

The guy i got the tune from swears it's fine like that and the bike does run the best it ever has, but i'm concerned about possibly running lean to a fault. Can those of you familiar with PCV and tuning in general look at it and tell me what you think please? I just want to know if number like that CAN be ok due to some other reason. While i'm running a richer version that i tweaked like i said, the tables you see below are exactly what HE is still running ! Any thoughts would be greatly appriciated. Thanks.

 

[R-III-R Turbo]

the table means nothing to me without knowing what air-fuel ratio you are actually getting at various revs & throttle % combinations, sorry

 

[oczad]

Obviously i can't know that with my setup and w/o a dyno. If i knew that i'd have my answer. But all i really want to know is has anyone ever seen PCV numbers like that or would it raise a red flag as to the *likelihood* that the bike may be running lean?

I also have another question. This has been answered many times but i have reason to be suspicious of the answer. When the checkbox for the sensors in a HEX map is unchecked, it's almost always said to do nothing more than keep the ECU from reporting sensor errors but doesn't have any affect on the sensors doing whet they always do. But i could swear i'm experiencing differences between running it with the optimizers and 02 checked vs unchecked. I ran the bike with and w/o the optimizers and without the lower gears just kick a lot harder than with the optimizers in. But when i put the optimizers back in without re-checking the 02 box it seemed to run the same rather than a bit less power as it did before with optimizers in and 02 checked. There are 2 possibilities....it's either placebo effect or unchecking the box DOES disable sensors, not just the error checking. I'm not at all afraid to believe it's me, but the difference honestly seems too big to be that.

 

[oczad]

Wow, someone remembers me, thanks ! Anyways, i think you misunderstood. Tuneecu has a feature where you can import fuel tables from a PCV map into a HEX map that can be loaded into the bike with tuneecu. So i imported the tables in the PCV tune he sent me into the triumph Tbird 1700 tors tune and thats how i use fuel tables from a PCV. It's not a perfect way to do it but it works. I'm just a bit worried his tune is super lean for some reason.

 

[warp9.9]

it would be good to have a look at the Tune ECU tables prior to the import, so one could see how much fuel is in them verses what the PCV unit is pulling out of or adding.

 

[oczad]

I've done that. After import i've compared it to other hex tables from other custom tunes. It is lean compared to them, but on the other hand those are all so rich they gulp fuel and smell rich.

 

[oczad]

To have +80 in one cell and - 32 in the next is weird. Stop dicking about and get a proper tune/measure or you will hurt your bike.

Well, the 80 and -33 are in the 0 throttle position so it doesn't really come into play. He mentioned doing that manually (the 80) to relieve popping on decel.

 

[Blastedbones]

No way to be sure without a dyno.. even different bikes ( same model) wont be exactly the same.Checking your spark plugs ( colour)can give SOME idea as to rich/lean, but unless you use the old 'CHOP' method, ( run the bike under load ...as in ride it...at a fixed revs for a few mins then cut the engine & look at the plugs.. repeat at different revs)you'll never know if it's fine thru certain revs & lean in other areas.

 

[oczad]

I have been using PC s since they were invented. I have NEVER had to put 80 in any cell. The map is not even at the 250 rpm resolution setting. The whole map looks weird to me. I think you should get it tuned properly. To relieve decel pop one should only need maybe an 8 in the cell. YOU ASKED about raising a red flag so I raised one.

Thanks for that ! I didn't even realize there was a way to set the res to 250, but i'm going to try running it like that in hopes it's even better with what would be more precise tuning. Also note if i wasn't clear that i am not running that tune as the screenshot i posted. I manually edited it and those very lean cells were enriched a lot. So there are none more than maybe -24, most much richer. And i have tried going further in that direction, tried it with no optimizers, FL switched lower, but nothing i do runs nearly as perfect. As it is now it runs much stronger than any other map and in a linear fashion with no weak spot anywhere. It's running cool as ever so i'm not sure what to do but i'm going to continue running it at least for now while i continue to research the subject. But also note that the guy who sent it to me has been running that tune as it is for 2 years. So that gives me some peace of mind.

 

[oczad]

I know i should, but i don't have the $ right now after a life situation thats leaving me to strapped to even afford to maintain the bike let alone put a pc on it. I'd rather take my chances than run the tors tune.