TURBO200R4

stand up straight and grab the world by the a$$
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,890
Location
TUCSON AZ
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07 rocket III classic
just about everyone pulls of that canister except me and packs it away
 

VoltaicVoltaire

.020 Over
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
32
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Rocket iii
The wiring diagram I posted shows the igniition coils get power from the engine management relay, which also powers the cooling fan relay and the fuel pump relay. If you are getting power to the fuel pump you should have power to the coils. Have you verified lack of spark voltage with a timing light? (Old school is pull one spark plug and see if it sparks when you turn the motor over). Here is the service manual, information in Chapter 11 should help diagnose your problem:



1659642141281.png
I get power to the coils for sure. I have about 13v there. I think the fuel pump is coming on, it sounds like it to me but there was some debate when I put up the video. I verified no spark with a timing light and then I used a jumper cable to ground a plug and that is what I have been watching most of the time. I do occasionally verify with the timing gun. The only time I thought I saw a spark was when I swapped out the ignition switch from the touring. The first time I turned it over I thought I saw a spark at the plug. Looked like a good white one but then it wasn't there. Maybe the light just played a trick on me. I have the service manual so I can see the wires, I just don't know what is wrong. I could not get either crank sensor to put out anything so maybe I got two bad ones but the touring had spark before. I don't know. I am about to give up on these.
 

cootertwo

Top Fuel
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,911
Location
Labelle Florida USA
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2013, & 2 05's R3R, 2006, 2004 Harley's, 2004 Kaw
Wow! Sorry to hear of all the problems. However, you may have already passed the point of having tried TOO many things. Been there, done that. Whole problem "could" be only one single thing. But now, switching this with that, is just adding to the possibilities. My suggestion would be to put everything original back on, including the ignition switch, and start from scratch with the wiring diagram and a multi-meter. I found "noid" tester lights to check pulse from computer to coils and injectors.
I done forgot what year we're talking about, but the ole burnt wire in the ignition switch is possible on some older models. On and on into the darkness. Also I'd be careful of what you ground with jumpers. The ECU is VERY expensive.:cool:
 

TURBO200R4

stand up straight and grab the world by the a$$
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
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Location
TUCSON AZ
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07 rocket III classic
if u have a scope then u can check thw voltage wave form at the ecu by probing the crank sensor wires that goes into the ecu.
 

VoltaicVoltaire

.020 Over
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
32
Ride
Rocket iii
Wow! Sorry to hear of all the problems. However, you may have already passed the point of having tried TOO many things. Been there, done that. Whole problem "could" be only one single thing. But now, switching this with that, is just adding to the possibilities. My suggestion would be to put everything original back on, including the ignition switch, and start from scratch with the wiring diagram and a multi-meter. I found "noid" tester lights to check pulse from computer to coils and injectors.
I done forgot what year we're talking about, but the ole burnt wire in the ignition switch is possible on some older models. On and on into the darkness. Also I'd be careful of what you ground with jumpers. The ECU is VERY expensive.:cool:
I went ahead an ordered the noid and an led tester. (I only had an old incandescent one) I will also buy better quality multimeter. I think right now it is just too darn hot and humid in my shop to think straight. By the time I get just a few minutes into this I am soaked in sweat and miserable. Then I get frustrated, which is not the zen mindset I need for this. I went out this morning and started putting things back as they were. For giggles I checked...no spark :)

I don't know how to use a scope. I vaguely remember a lesson in high school shop class but that was some years ago. Maybe I will try to educate myself. I will buy whatever I need to figure it out. My ignorance is the issue, not a lack of funds. I keep telling myself I buy old bikes to work on them for fun, not to be a chore but these two bikes have pushed me to near insanity.

It is going to be unbearable hot out there for the next week + and I got a honey-do list inside the house anyway. I will push this aside util St. Louis drops below 90% humidity.

Thanks to all you guys, I do appreciate your wisdom. When I get back to it I will post progress and promise not to let the thread die without some sort of resolution.

-JD
 

atomsplitter

Living Legend
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,402
Location
Keller, TX
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17 T-120 Black, 20 Bobber Black, 98 Trophy 1200
Last weekend son-in-law and I were going to fiddle the pilot air screws on my Trophy 1200 and when it was obvious we had to strip the fuel tank off to get to the spark plugs to install my Color Tune we opted to do it this fall in cooler weather.

That said it seems the crank angle sensor is a probablity but the tip over sensor directly shuts the ECU down. When you switch ignition power on the output of the fall detection sensor should show voltage (5V I believe). The crank angle sensor will only show voltage spikes when the crankshaft is moving (how the ECM recognizes when to disconnect the coil voltage). Having 2 bad ecu's is unlikely (not impossible).

The 08 model Classic routed headlight power thru the ignition barrel and would loosen solder joints in the barrel from 55 watt power to lights overheating them over time. Most folks opted to bypass that by using the Eastern Beaver relay (or similar) that put the battery to the headlight directly. The functionality of the system was retained (i.e. light extinguished when the starter button was closed) just where the power was tapped to the light was different (and resulted in a brighter headlight).

It is apparent (to me anyway) the ECU is not shutting the coil power off when the crank angle sensor says it's time to fire the spark plug. There are only limited inputs to cause that. While you wait for cooler weather to continue your quest you may want to formulate a methodology to eliminate the problems one at a time.
 

TURBO200R4

stand up straight and grab the world by the a$$
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,890
Location
TUCSON AZ
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07 rocket III classic
hope this helps

 

VoltaicVoltaire

.020 Over
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
32
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Rocket iii
Welp, I am throwing in the towel on the Classic, I can't find anything causing the no spark situation and have gone through everything I can think of. Since it has a salvage title anyway I just bought it for the engine so I will swap out the engine with my touring one. It had spark and since I will leave most of the electronics to the classic maybe I can get at least the touring going.

I will start parting the Classic today and stuff will go up on eBay. I will list it in the classifieds section too but if anyone wants anything let me know. I am keeping all of the mechanical stuff the bikes have in common till I am done but body parts etc. I will let go.

See you in a month or so when I finally get the engines swapped out and I can't get the other one going!
 
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