Nev's Lock Up Clutch

[Jan Udholm]

I will try again

Hello all, thank you for all your help.
I am inside the engine again, and I have decided to give the Lock-Up clutch one more chance, but this time i want it right.

1. will I have to put in the "antijudder" spring washer ? ( i did not put it in )
2. Shall I leave any clutch plates "out" or let stock numbers stay mounted.
3. Is there anything else that I shall be aware of ?
I found this little funny looking spring washer in my engine oil :-(
does anybody know what it is, where it came from, I have never seen it before and I have not mounted anything with that little fellow in between.
For size , I have pictured it besides a pen
What do I do ?

 

[rabtech]

Tomo

Heavier springs will not force the balls anywhere. You need to understand that the nature of a lock-up clutch is different from the stock clutch. You will need to learn to up-shift without the clutch... period. It's not difficult and does not "force" the gears when done properly.

When you take your R3 out of the "cruiser" realm by exceeding 160 Ft Lbs of torque, you need a lock-up clutch. Kevlar fibers and stronger springs won't cut it. Learning to shift your R3 like a sport bike is the price to be paid for high performance.

What was that old saying? "Try it, you'll like it!"

ps. The one thing you might try is lighter weight oil for faster ball return.

Howdy Hombre,

Believe it or not I have the upgraded springs and my clutch hasnt gave yet. I ride 2 up most of the time but even then I am over 120mph with quick starts and wheelies. However, I am expecting it to go anytime. I weigh 375 pounds and carry the front tire about 2 feet from the ground in second frequently.

 

[warp9.9]

Where are you at? You can borrow my leak down tester.

I'm thinking that its going to take some sort of combination or fine tuning to get this to work better FOR ME. Others may want it to lock up hard but I want to ride somewhat normally and just not have the clutch slip when I'm playing with Harleys.

The key is to get the ball bearings to return to the center quicker. I have noticed that this clutch seems to operate somewhat differently at times and that may be caused by the ball bearings not all being in the same position at the same time. Maybe 2 or 3 are all the way up the channels and the rest are only halfway there, causing the pressure plate to wobble, or at least apply pressure unevenly.

Just some thoughts... like I said before, use the heavier springs? This may force the ball bearings in sooner and may help put a more even pressure on the ball bearings so they move in unison. Heck... maybe smaller ball bearings (just slightly) so they won't jam up in the channels OR possibly they might not have as much centrifical force because of their smaller mass and release sooner? And the shims, possibly a little thicker shim and the ball bearings supplied might do the trick?

Are those ball bearings hardened?

Tom think of it as a centrifugal grip clutch and with the spacer Nev supplied it allows more clutch head movement(PULL) which means the balls travel farther out before they can apply pressure th the clutch pack. if you us to much spacers you will either rub your cover or the needle bearing housing in the cover. Also if you give to much spacers the balls will travel out and grip nothing which means you might as well leave them out!!!

 

[Toystoretom]

Heavier springs will not force the balls anywhere

The springs basically exert force between the inner pressure plate and the clutch plates. As the rpm's drop and the ball bearings try to return to the center position they are forced down the ramps by this spring pressure. The springs exert pressure in both directions, ie they also push back at the inner pressure plate. If this were not so, what forces the ball bearings back to the center?

I don't want to have to power shift this or jam it up through the gears. I wanted a useable clutch that locked up, which for some silly reason I thought this was.

I'm going to tear this down and take a look at it, possibly this weekend. You never know, I may come up with something ...

 

[warp9.9]

once you let off the throttle torque is reduced dramaticly as with the rpms and the centrifugal force outwards decrease. With not enough pressure keeping the bearings outward and when the movable clutch head/pressure plate is pulled outward to release the clutch the bearings move inward and down the ramped grooves towards the center thus allowing only the springs to grip the clutch.

 

[Toystoretom]

Wellllll....

Look at what my buddy Flip came up with. Probably the original lock up clutch. And it has 100% release at any rpm.

Rekluse Motor Sports - z-Start Pro Clutch

I may have to study this for a bit

 

[Toystoretom]

With not enough pressure keeping the bearings outward when the movable clutch head/pressure plate is pulled outward the bearings move inward.

So you are saying that the ball bearings move inward twords the center position only if you pull in the clutch? Therefore the clutch remains locked up at all times unless you pull in the clutch handle? Mine doesn't. It will unlock if you drop the rpm's. How are those ball bearings moving in if you don't touch the clutch handle?

 

[Toystoretom]

However , if you are right (Like I said, I need to tear this down and study it) you may have just given me a major brain fart on this deal

 

[warp9.9]

almost I mean when your not on the motor hard they just go out and barely contact the inside of the stationary clutch head but there is not enough force generated to lock the clutch up you should be able to hear it. any sense there is not enough outward force to apply pressure when you pull in the clutch handle it helps guide lem inwards with little effort. at high rpms say 5K there is a lot of force wedgeing them between the two clutch heads if they force out far enough they force the clutch to grip more then the springs can alone. lock up condition would be like driving 5 wedges inbetween the two clutch heads applying more grip pressure then the springs. The heavier springs are used because the bike has so much low end torque the clutch would start to slipp before the bearings could do their job. These test were on a High compression Rocket Nev biult.

 

[hombre]

Tomo

With a little luck you can chat with Murray, designer of the R3 lock-up clutch, on R3P tomorrow (or soon).