Nev's Lock Up Clutch

[THE PUNISHER]

Today I finished mounting my Supercharger on my R3 2006.
I put in Nev´s lock-up clutch too, and everything was ready for take off, I did the final adjustments on the clutch, and it wouldent disengage, no matter how much i tryed and adjusted it......then the lifter shaft snapped........So instead fo riding my bike
I have to take everything off again, Supercharger, Cooler, water, Oil etc.etc...
I even upgraded the lifter piece to the "new" one, before I put the lock-up in.
My question is Shall i use stock number of plates, or shall I remove one plate ?
I am sooo close to putting the stock clutch back in, and then sell Nevilles clutch.
What am I ( and all the other customers ) doing wrong ?
Please help me out ?

From memory I plate was left out with mine,I thinkIt has been a few years.

 

[hombre]

Today I finished mounting my Supercharger on my R3 2006.
I put in Nev´s lock-up clutch too, and everything was ready for take off, I did the final adjustments on the clutch, and it wouldent disengage, no matter how much i tryed and adjusted it......then the lifter shaft snapped........So instead fo riding my bike
I have to take everything off again, Supercharger, Cooler, water, Oil etc.etc...
I even upgraded the lifter piece to the "new" one, before I put the lock-up in.
My question is Shall i use stock number of plates, or shall I remove one plate ?
I am sooo close to putting the stock clutch back in, and then sell Nevilles clutch.
What am I ( and all the other customers ) doing wrong ?
Please help me out ?

The instructions with my lock-up clutch said to leave out one plate.

 

[hombre]

Nev just checked in, so those awaiting email answers should hear from him soon.

 

[warp9.9]

Old style lock up clutch (red stationary clutch head) does remove one disc and anti judder spring and anti judder seat.


The new style Lock up clutch (gold stationary clutch head) takes all standard triumph clutch disc and anti judder springs with seat.



if you left the anti judder spring and seat out I do not think it will hurt as I believe this system aids in decreasing any clutch plate chatter from slopp.
I will add that Nevs directions state to use all internal clutch parts from the standard clutch.

In the picture below it does not matter whether new or old they both have these milled bearing tracks in them and both are ramped as the centrifugal force sends the bearing outward they end up griping the clutch and thus lockup condition occurs.(by applying pressure as they get forced between the stationary head and the moving pressure plate)

I was thinking the last time I put mine back together if one or two of these bearing grooves were down when you bolt the clutch head in and got clamped by the bolt force the clutch would be in a lock up condition (semi clamped) and until the engine rotates the will not move and you will not be able to release the clutch. If this happened then I would also worry about having the clutch head truly mounted right or would it loosen up as the balls freed up? So I greased mine and insured they stayed in the center while I tightend the clutch head.

As for upshifting with the clutch I lever I do when I am operating under 3k on the tack mellow driving although I must tell you as Hombre said you have to learn and drill this into your head. When I ride hard or I am lazy I do not use the clutch lever.
clutch adjustment is critical as you only have abot .120. of clutch movement which about .005 clearance between the disc.
As Hombre taught me some times when it cold or when I am at a light I will double clutch in neutral (pump her) just to get some oil to the disc.

 

[Sidecar Flip]

It's interesting seeing Nev's balls and tracks (nothing meant personally by that...).

If you go to the Rekluse website and look at their clutch, especially their release design, it's EXACTLY like Nev's with one big difference. Rekluse has 10 times the number of balls and inclined tracks that Nev's clutch has.

I find that very interesting.

I know someone that has a Rekluse in their bike and it's common practice to remove one OEM plate and replace it with the Rekluse supplied plate.

I don't know if Nev's clutch displays the same behavior as a Rekluse but, with a Rekluse installeed, you cant push start a bike and you have to adjust the clutch loose at the handlever because the clutch itself takes up freeplay as the engine increases in RPM.

If you guys want to read about Rekluse clutches, I'll shoot you the websites that have done real world tests. They don't make one for the R3 so there is no competiton but the designs and operating principles are strikingly similar.

 

[warp9.9]

I am always interested in good reading Flip
I think Nev and Muzzy changed the thickness of the pressure plate allowing one to keep all the plates and make it easier to install as you do not have to pull anything out of the basket.
I read ahow to and di not realize the difference so I put her together with out one plate and the anti judder and if you have a new one you will see that the clutch will not grip with out it.
I know there are two different clutch baskets but do not know if that makes a difference? But I don't think so.
I don't know if its my machinist background or not but I can hear the ball bearings when there not in lock up!

 

[Toystoretom]

Easy boys... We will get this sorted out .....

I have the gold clutch... here are some pictures:





And just an extra picture of me measuring the distance on the release rod:



Hombre.... I am trying to upshift normally, not ram it up through the gears as if you are not using the clutch. When it is locked up and won't upshift I have pulled really hard on the shifter lever and it appears that its not gonna upshift. At this point if I back off the throttle and let the revs come down it will shift perfectly. Sometimes if I doulble clutch it, it will shift. It is better after the bike warms up.

I didn't leave out any clutch plates or bevel springs and I'm pretty sure I followed Nev's instructions to a tee.

When I pull in on the clutch this needs to release, not wait until the transmitted power or revs drop off. Possibly I should use the heavier springs supplied by Nev. This may force the ball bearings in the pressure plate back into the center sooner? Play with the shims so the pressure plate doesn't lock up so completely?

I'm gonna be the guniea pig aren't I.....

 

[warp9.9]

Hell talk about guniea pigs, yes at 138mph I either over boosted the head gasket on my engine or I might of had a detonation I did not hear and broke some rings just guessing could be hole in piston
Just incase I now own a extra Rocket engine 2007 with 11k on her and throttle bodies.
I should be recieving leak down detector tomorrow for some test to try to figure out what I have going on before I jerk mine down again.
fun fun at least I will have a extra head for Art, to have done with cams to boot.
You want to play you have to pay ****
On the plus side she is one fun toy

 

[Toystoretom]

Where are you at? You can borrow my leak down tester.

I'm thinking that its going to take some sort of combination or fine tuning to get this to work better FOR ME. Others may want it to lock up hard but I want to ride somewhat normally and just not have the clutch slip when I'm playing with Harleys.

The key is to get the ball bearings to return to the center quicker. I have noticed that this clutch seems to operate somewhat differently at times and that may be caused by the ball bearings not all being in the same position at the same time. Maybe 2 or 3 are all the way up the channels and the rest are only halfway there, causing the pressure plate to wobble, or at least apply pressure unevenly.

Just some thoughts... like I said before, use the heavier springs? This may force the ball bearings in sooner and may help put a more even pressure on the ball bearings so they move in unison. Heck... maybe smaller ball bearings (just slightly) so they won't jam up in the channels OR possibly they might not have as much centrifical force because of their smaller mass and release sooner? And the shims, possibly a little thicker shim and the ball bearings supplied might do the trick?

Are those ball bearings hardened?

 

[hombre]

Tomo

Heavier springs will not force the balls anywhere. You need to understand that the nature of a lock-up clutch is different from the stock clutch. You will need to learn to up-shift without the clutch... period. It's not difficult and does not "force" the gears when done properly.

When you take your R3 out of the "cruiser" realm by exceeding 160 Ft Lbs of torque, you need a lock-up clutch. Kevlar fibers and stronger springs won't cut it. Learning to shift your R3 like a sport bike is the price to be paid for high performance.

What was that old saying? "Try it, you'll like it!"

ps. The one thing you might try is lighter weight oil for faster ball return.