Troubles and havent even had first ride

karl rashleigh said:

... ps if all injectors are not spraying the same amount would this cause the amount of problems i am having? in non mechanical terms its like 2 are spraying 20 mil of fuel and 1 is spraying 10 -15ml.

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Well, because 1 is different from the other two, you are assuming the 'two' are correct
But you can't really say one way or the other that is the case - all three could be low and just that is one relatively worse than the other two.
You don't have a known good reference for comparison and given the crud removed from the rail, you need to assume the worst case.

It is fair to say you are at least getting 'some' gas into each cylinder, so you would hope would be enough to fire and run.
But without really knowing how much each is delivering, vs the actual demand, hard to say categorically that in itself is not the only problem.
Needs to be addressed regardless & until they are cleaned & flow-tested, you can't discount them as still being THE major influence.

But need to cover all the bases.
Again, check the TPS with TuneECU as previously described.
However as per the supposition on the injectors possibly flowing enough to at least run, you could say the same with the TPS - yes, if it is off cal, it can make the injectors flow more or less than optimal - but again, you would expect it just to be rough, not flat out incapable of running. It will be easy to see with TuneECU as I described earlier in the thread and dismiss or confirm one way or the other.
Unlike the fuel system, you would not expect any TPS issues from the bike just sitting all that time - it can't just get itself out of whack.
So I'm doubtful it is an issue, but easy to check & dismiss

Incidentally, starting should normally be with the throttle grip closed - when you open it you are setting the TPS to a higher point of reference (which delivers more fuel) as well as opening the throttles themselves
So you are creating a fuel/air problem in itself
i.e. if the injectors aren't flowing enough gas, but you open the throttle to get more gas in, unfortunately it is also allowing more air in so it can still be super-lean.
So once you get the injectors cleaned/cal'd leave the throttle alone while attempting to start.

I still have suspicions about the MAP sensor and potential leaks associated with that
It is so easy to have issues there, especially with removing tank, airbox etc, so possibly not a prime mover originally (which appears to be predominantly fuel related) but can easily be created while you're working in that area.
Again see my earlier notes about checking that in TuneECU. You should even be able to see that while cranking, even if it does not fire.

Also, when you hook up TuneECU, you will likely find fault codes right off the bat (things being disconnected while you have been working)
Note them, but just go ahead and clear them - we are looking to see if any re-appear as current issues, rather than be sidetracked by those temporary faults caused during diagnostics.

you have received good info about injectors, however you did not answer up on the stepper motor. when you turn on ign does the stepper motor move in then out? if not the bike will not start with the throttle closed.

if the fuel pump or filter went bad there could be a lot of debris setting on top of the injectors.
where did you spray to get the black stuff on your hands?

i will have a look again at tuneecu again. i had it on the other day just seeing how it works with out fiddling with anything. the cable was fine and read the bike but no map came up so i have been reading about this. no fualts came up apart from the engine yellow light but it doesnt come up on the bike. (I dont know too much with this so i am trying to do this as i understand it) the people who did the service said they had loaded updated map in it. its taking me awhile as each area that is suggested i have to look up. i had been moving the throttle to start it but not on the first 2 attempts that ity stalled i did on the 3rd attempt. we will also have a look at the stepper motor as described. sooo much to learn but each thing that i go through i am understanding more and more of the bike

TURBO200R4 said:

if the fuel pump or filter went bad there could be a lot of debris setting on top of the injectors.
where did you spray to get the black stuff on your hands?

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we took the fuel rail off and sprayed from the hose into the rail, the pressure pushed the gunk back out, we did this until it was clear fluid comming out

karl rashleigh said:

.... the cable was fine and read the bike but no map came up ....

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The map does not read automatically - you have to 'read map' (under the ECU menu) in order for it to load the map from the ECU to the program
Alternatively, you can download a map from the TuneECU website and open that (maps on site are in zip format, so need to be extracted)
Just because you open a map in the program does not mean it will transfer to the ECU - for that you must execute a 'download'
It would be good to 'read map' from ECU so you are looking at what is actually in there currently.

no fualts came up apart from the engine yellow light but it doesnt come up on the bike.

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The Engine light would normally be on with ignition but go off when started; the screen and the actual lamp on the bike should be in concert
any faults will show in the box at the bottom of the diagnostic screen.

You can see the MAP sensor readings for each of the three cylinders on the Tests Screen - you should see readings even with just cranking and the three should be relatively close.
Without engine pulling air, the readings will be ~ 1000 hPa (100 on the dial)
But pressure in the intake ports will reduce once the cylinders draw air.
'Normal' pressure you would see when running at idle is in the order or 600hPa

Regarding the stepper - that is the idle speed control mechanism;
it controls the idle speed by slightly opening the throttles - more when engine temp is cool, for higher idle speed, and not quite so much when it's warmed up
You can see how the idle speed is set by engine temp if you open the 'idle' tab in the map edit screen (again, you need a map to opened in the program first)
A 'stepper' is a special type of motor - unlike one that rotates continuously, it is a precision device that 'steps' through incremental angle of rotation. That angular motion is transcribed to open the throttle plates by a controlled amount. It initially (upon ignition on) will cycle the stepper then stop on a position for starting - the throttles must be open by some degree in order to get some air into the cylinders; once the engine starts it goes into a closed loop whereby the ECU measures the engine speed and adjusts the stepper accordingly to a position which will maintain the speed as determined by the engine temp in the idle look-up table.
As cautioned earlier, don't be tempted to mess with the stepper adjustment unless there is absolutely something wrong there - there is no reason that should get itself out of whack so best left alone until a later point of your diagnostics.
So all you are looking for is to see that it does go through its initiation routine when you turn on the ignition.

DEcosse said:

The map does not read automatically - you have to 'read map' (under the ECU menu) in order for it to load the map from the ECU to the program
Alternatively, you can download a map from the TuneECU website and open that (maps on site are in zip format, so need to be extracted)
Just because you open a map in the program does not mean it will transfer to the ECU - for that you must execute a 'download'
It would be good to 'read map' from ECU so you are looking at what is actually in there currently.



The Engine light would normally be on with ignition but go off when started; the screen and the actual lamp on the bike should be in concert
any faults will show in the box at the bottom of the diagnostic screen.

You can see the MAP sensor readings for each of the three cylinders on the Tests Screen - you should see readings even with just cranking and the three should be relatively close.
Without engine pulling air, the readings will be ~ 1000 hPa (100 on the dial)
But pressure in the intake ports will reduce once the cylinders draw air.
'Normal' pressure you would see when running at idle is in the order or 600hPa

Regarding the stepper - that is the idle speed control mechanism;
it controls the idle speed by slightly opening the throttles - more when engine temp is cool, for higher idle speed, and not quite so much when it's warmed up
You can see how the idle speed is set by engine temp if you open the 'idle' tab in the map edit screen (again, you need a map to opened in the program first)
A 'stepper' is a special type of motor - unlike one that rotates continuously, it is a precision device that 'steps' through incremental angle of rotation. That angular motion is transcribed to open the throttle plates by a controlled amount. It initially (upon ignition on) will cycle the stepper then stop on a position for starting - the throttles must be open by some degree in order to get some air into the cylinders; once the engine starts it goes into a closed loop whereby the ECU measures the engine speed and adjusts the stepper accordingly to a position which will maintain the speed as determined by the engine temp in the idle look-up table.
As cautioned earlier, don't be tempted to mess with the stepper adjustment unless there is absolutely something wrong there - there is no reason that should get itself out of whack so best left alone until a later point of your diagnostics.
So all you are looking for is to see that it does go through its initiation routine when you turn on the ignition.

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that makes it very clear thankyou, i am more confident knowing this now with tuneecu. i will keep posted how i go today

p.s. Once you 'read map' it will identify what you have on the top left of the mapedit screen
I believe that should be 20367 for an early R3T - let us know what you have, especially since you mentioned Triumph installed an 'updated' map.

DEcosse said:

p.s. Once you 'read map' it will identify what you have on the top left of the mapedit screen
I believe that should be 20367 for an early R3T - let us know what you have, especially since you mentioned Triumph installed an 'updated' map.

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ok did the testing, no faults, the initial map while reading said 20219 then when it loaded it said 20221. while it is off the bike it is saying 20219 again. tested all the stuff on the bottm right and no error code came up. cranked the bike with out it starting as it wouldnt. cyl 1 and 2 read 960 while trying to start, cyl 3 read 950 then after a bit went to 960. its about outside temp is around 13 today. thats as far as i can go with the ecu now

karl rashleigh said:

... the initial map while reading said 20219 then when it loaded it said 20221. while it is off the bike it is saying 20219 again.

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OK - sorry - 367 is for Tour-ING model, yours I now more correctly see is Tour-ER which is essentially a Classic with some add-on bits.

219 is classic map for bike with after-market exhaust with catbox removed, while 221 is after-market exhaust without catalyst

Other alternatives would
215 - std production exhaust with catalyst
218 - after-market exhaust with catalyst

Any of these would not be prohibitive to starting & running - the 'wrong' config would not necessarily be optimal, but would still run & control idle speed

... cranked the bike with out it starting as it wouldnt. cyl 1 and 2 read 960 while trying to start, cyl 3 read 950 then after a bit went to 960. ...

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OK - I can't say with certainty what it should read while cranking - but that is only marginally below atmospheric which MIGHT suggest you have air leak there
But that is completely unqualified statement and I am only comparing running at idle which as said would be more in the 500 kinda range (but as I'm writing that too would be at full running temp when throttles closed down a bit) - so maybe those numbers are what you would get? I don't know - would have expected lower
If anyone can offer some reference numbers there (for MAP reading while cranking while cold, or even running when engine cold) that would be good data ...........

For your part Karl, you can only go by visual as to whether the hoses are properly connected and there are no other open ports where air can leak