I need a louder horn!!!

[Lostride]

My previous post is the handy work of Geek Law. I merely added it as others can't access it. Very helpful post

Thanks for posting that! I came to a similar conclusion with regards to the extensions to set the horn cover a bit more forward. Unfortunately I can;t see how the horn is actually mounted. I see the bit about the ties so I can assume from that. I cut that bit off completely, so I will have to rig it up somehow...

 

[Lostride]

I put the whole thing under the left side cover - easy, peazy!

I figured I would put the comp in there (I still have the original airbox ) and I wanted the horn up front for maximum effect

 

[DEcosse]

My previous post is the handy work of Geek Law. I merely added it as others can't access it..

The only critique is that I would use better gauge wire on the actual horn supply and ground - 14 minimum (or even 12 if your wire runs are long) and for both the Positive and negative wires.
(the relay extension wires from the OEM horn wires can be tiny, no issue there)
It will actually make a difference to the output volume of the horn!
Consider how the intensity of the OEM headlights change when you add a relay kit with improved wire gauge - The light output is improved because you are not dropping voltage across the wiring.
i.e. improved voltage at the lamps (no drop in the supply wiring) means more light out
(it's not the relay itself that creates the improvement - the relay is the conduit to utilizing better wire gauge and shorter routing)
Now those lights are only drawing about half the current of what the Stebel is pulling and you will have similar effect with the horn output.
i.e. at 18A you WILL drop significant voltage if you use a small gauge wire.
So like in most things, 'bigger is better'

(If the wires are relatively short the effect may be less noticeable, but still good practice to use a suitably rated wire gauge)

 

[Lostride]

I just got all the bits to mount the hardware, on my way out to get the wiring, thanks for the timely reminder about wire gauge. The instructions call for 2.5mm sq but the run is not that far from the battery to the left side cover, will I do better with a heavier gauge?

 

[Lostride]

Thanks mate , looking at the instructions that are in ant sized font thats exactly how i read it but awesome knowing what guage wires are needed , thank you

Yep small writing alright, 2.5mm sq gauge wire for the heavy side.

 

[DEcosse]

2.5mm^2 should be perfect - that is between 14 & 12 awg

 

[Lostride]

You can't just go straight to battery, Wrecka, you need to be to be able to control it off the horn switch and can't put all that current through the switch.
So you need to use a relay.
Extend existing OEM wires from the OEM horn to the relay coil terminals:
Black/Blue to the 86 terminal*
Purple/Black to the 85 terminal*;
Then Battery Positive (via 25A Fuse) to 30 terminal**
And new Horn+ to 87 terminal**
Horn -ve to either engine ground or battery negative.**

* these wires can be small gauge - 20 is plenty
** these wires should be heavy gauge - at least 14, 12 is better.

I have been trying to get this going today, I followed this very carefully and as soon as I touch the +I've fused wire from 30 to the battery it goes off. Seems that I have continuity between 30 and 87, I assume this is wrong... If I just hook up the old horn wires and turn on ignition, hit horn button, I hear the relay clicking.. Is the relay screwed?

 

[DEcosse]

If I just hook up the old horn wires and turn on ignition, hit horn button, I hear the relay clicking.. Is the relay screwed?

Just so I understand exactly what you're saying here - for this scenario, you don't have the actual (new) horn connected to 87, but only the OEM horn wires to 86 & 85;
When you turn on ignition, relay does not click immediately, but does when you press/release the horn button?

If I have transcribed that accurately, then the 'control' circuit of the relay is working normally.

The most likely issue (once you connect the battery) is that you have the horn connected to 87a terminal (which is the one in the middle) - that is the normally-closed* terminal.
The simple test there is that when you press the horn button, the horn STOPS.
i.e. turn on ignition, hold horn button and then touch 30 wire to battery; then release horn button;
If horn does not sound immediately, but does when you release the button, that confirms you are using the 87a terminal.
Fix is to simply swap to the 87 terminal.

* 5-pin relays have both a normally-closed (87a) and normally-open (87) terminal.
The terms are descriptive of how they operate:
The normally-closed terminal is connected to the 30 terminal when the relay is NOT energized and that circuit 'breaks' (opens) when the relay IS energized.
The normally-open terminal is un-connected to the 30 terminal when the relay is NOT energized, but 'makes' (closes) the connection when the relay IS energized.

Example of these different applications (actually within the same common component):
The OEM starter relay - that uses the normally-closed contact to send current to the headlights; when the starter button is operated the relay energizes and simultaneously 'opens' the connection to the headlights and 'closes' the contact which sends current to the starter solenoid.
Triumphs have always used this feature to remove the load of the headlamps to improve the current available for starting.

 

[warp9.9]

This is very informative thread. Now I completely understand why I have the OEM horn on my bikes. Works well, not that I really use it but it sounds better then a electrical nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[Lostride]

Just so I understand exactly what you're saying here - for this scenario, you don't have the actual (new) horn connected to 87, but only the OEM horn wires to 86 & 85;
When you turn on ignition, relay does not click immediately, but does when you press/release the horn button?

If I have transcribed that accurately, then the 'control' circuit of the relay is working normally.

The most likely issue (once you connect the battery) is that you have the horn connected to 87a terminal (which is the one in the middle) - that is the normally-closed* terminal.
The simple test there is that when you press the horn button, the horn STOPS.
i.e. turn on ignition, hold horn button and then touch 30 wire to battery; then release horn button;
If horn does not sound immediately, but does when you release the button, that confirms you are using the 87a terminal.
Fix is to simply swap to the 87 terminal.

* 5-pin relays have both a normally-closed (87a) and normally-open (87) terminal.
The terms are descriptive of how they operate:
The normally-closed terminal is connected to the 30 terminal when the relay is NOT energized and that circuit 'breaks' (opens) when the relay IS energized.
The normally-open terminal is un-connected to the 30 terminal when the relay is NOT energized, but 'makes' (closes) the connection when the relay IS energized.

Example of these different applications (actually within the same common component):
The OEM starter relay - that uses the normally-closed contact to send current to the headlights; when the starter button is operated the relay energizes and simultaneously 'opens' the connection to the headlights and 'closes' the contact which sends current to the starter solenoid.
Triumphs have always used this feature to remove the load of the headlamps to improve the current available for starting.

I carefully went over everything again. It is a 4 pin relay so no 87a. After trying just the old horn connectors plugged on without the 30/87, ignition on, hit the horn button and the relay clicks, then it seemed I had an open circuit across 30/87, but only momentary because when I hooked them back up again the problem was still there (30/87 were closed again, horn running as soon as the 30 lead attached to the +ve terminal of the battery)
I can only conclude that the relay is getting stuck etc. It is the relay that came packaged with the horn and may be of dubious quality.
I am going to get a new decent quality relay and try again tonight. Thanks for your input @DEcosse and support in all thing electrical!