Howdy..............

[PianoMan]

Welcome

The fact that you love riding and you have a Triumph is good enough for me. I hope you'll join in with the "Tech" guys and help us uninformed riders with some hints and suggestions on mods, accessories and other stuff I don't quite understand.

Love the bike!!

 

[RADEMIS]

Hello there sightglass, nice looking bike you got there.
If I may ask you a question, how does triumph decide which issues are warranted to become recall issues? my point in mind is my 2005 rocket that now has terrible timing chain noise ( we call it paint can rattle ) thats just what it sounds like. does it go by how many failures occure before they step up to the plate and accept responsibility? I have had all of the parts priced out, just under 1500 dollars just for the parts. And to make matters worse it sounds like this repair is going to require a dealer/trained mechanic to do the work. Please give me your opinion, on this ever becoming a recall repair. thanks, and welcome to the rocket site. Rademis

 

[busajack]

Sightglass

Yes, my question Is almost the same.I have an early 05 that seems to be perfect right now. I have lost some of the enjoyment of riding by reading about,lower timming chain sprokets.output shaft bearings,TPSs, idle steper motors etc..So now that I'am over a year out of warranty am I just screwed when these things happen??These problems came to light during the first year of production and I feel should be takin care of by triumph when they happen no matter how far out of warranty a bike Is. They have not corrected some of these problems even on 07 bikes..Whats your take on this situation?? Jack

 

[HeR3tic]

**** good point BJ!

Welcome to the forum Sightglass.

"...9 out of 10 times the valve adjustment check is a waste of time..." sound familiar. I just took mine in for the infamous "paint can rattle". Their first question was whether the 10k had been done. The valve adjustment check will be necessary before progressing on to the paint can rattle cause. I know a chain and sprocket noise when I hear. Mine went from clearly present at birth to horrendous, right at 10k. There was a short period after changing over to Amsoil that the noise was unremarkable. With 5k on that change I'm due another; but, I'll wait to see if the shop swaps out the oil post change out of the chain, sprocket, key ways, etc.

Now if Triumph would get off their arses and outright acknowledge the issue there'd be more smiles in my attitude. It's got to be low bid/poor quality farming out of parts?

 

[Sidecar Flip]

Interesting scenario....

Yes, my question Is almost the same.I have an early 05 that seems to be perfect right now. I have lost some of the enjoyment of riding by reading about,lower timming chain sprokets.output shaft bearings,TPSs, idle steper motors etc..So now that I'am over a year out of warranty am I just screwed when these things happen??These problems came to light during the first year of production and I feel should be takin care of by triumph when they happen no matter how far out of warranty a bike Is. They have not corrected some of these problems even on 07 bikes..Whats your take on this situation?? Jack

Jack, excellent question but I don't think for a minute a technician can answer it correctly and objectively and I don't see triumph as a corporation answering it obliquely either.

**** good point BJ!

Welcome to the forum Sightglass.

"...9 out of 10 times the valve adjustment check is a waste of time..." sound familiar. I just took mine in for the infamous "paint can rattle". Their first question was whether the 10k had been done. The valve adjustment check will be necessary before progressing on to the paint can rattle cause. I know a chain and sprocket noise when I hear. Mine went from clearly present at birth to horrendous, right at 10k. There was a short period after changing over to Amsoil that the noise was unremarkable. With 5k on that change I'm due another; but, I'll wait to see if the shop swaps out the oil post change out of the chain, sprocket, key ways, etc.

Now if Triumph would get off their arses and outright acknowledge the issue there'd be more smiles in my attitude. It's got to be low bid/poor quality farming out of parts?

Lets see, we have an admission by a certified (I think) Triumph Technician that the valve adjustment is not needed at 10K or even 20K. But yet, the dealers charge for it at 10K nonetheless. It's an interesting scenario. Is supposedly honest and above board local Triumph dealer sticking it right up your exhaust pipe with charges for valve adjustment procedures or just checking the appropriate boxes on the sheet, never performing the work and smiling all the way to the bank along with the proceeds from the over priced Triumph OEM accessories. I have a bad feeling it's the latter in most cases.

Distill it down to this.....You get charged 800 to 1000 bucks for them to check the bike over (you hope), hook up the Triumph Diagnostic Tool and check the EFI and balance the throttle bodies, change the oil and maybe the final drive lube and hopefully wash the bike and fuel it. For between 800 and 1000 bucks. Maybe 250 thou to get a Triumph franchise and floor plan the bikes isn't such a bad investment. The return on service and accessories is phenominal........

Least I forget, I don't want to leave out the kid that might wash your bike before it leaves the dealership taking it out and beating the **** out of it to make sure that all the 'service' was performed correctly.

Then we get to the dealer who makes the comment to Rocky about 'was the 10K valve adjustment performed'? He knows that it has nothing to do with the timing chain rattle, he's not stupid though he knows we are or at least assumes we are. What a way to play cover my ass. This could get very interesting in the least.....read on the next post.....

 

[Sidecar Flip]

I didn't want to go over the maximum wordage limit....

Without starting an argument with anyone about valve adjustments on these motorcycles in general, after Jack's comment to me about my local mechanic blowing smoke up my ass by being able to ascertain whether or not the valves are in specification by taking a relative compression check, I went to see him last weekend. besides, I needed my sidecar wheel spin balanced.

First off, so everything is above board, it's:

Thunder Cycle, Adam Thorn, Monroe, Michigan.

Adam owns a number of bikes himself and demonstrated on one of his bikes (a Kawasaki ****** rocket) that by taking the relative compression ratio between the cylinders and using a 7% overall difference between them, if the pressures fall in the 7% range, the shims need not be added or subtracted.. To further that, he checked the compression ratio. All cylinders were with 10 pounds of each other. He then took the overhead cover off and checked the clearances while I was there (by the way, smoking his cigarettes and drinking his Mountain dew). All the clearances were within the Kawasaki Shop Manual limits.

Adam derives his living working on bikes and has an impeccable reputation around here working on all brands of bikes. I showed Adam, Jacks post about him (Adam) blowing smoke up my ass and his comment can't be put on this site but he invited Jack to come to the shop anytime he desires and discuss his mechanical prowess face to face. Adam just happens to be a Vietnam Marine Vet. He's short on words, quick on action.

 

[Paul Hyland]

Idea

With all the wondering about if's and whats i came up with an idea. I plan on marking my bolts and head to see if it has been removed when i take it in. Thats not to say they check the clearance. But if they take the time remove it I'd hope they check em. I have heard of riders say there valves were off but that might be the shop blowing smoke so the customer feels good about the money who knows.

 

[busajack]

Flip

You cannot tell valve clearances with a compression ck..PERIOD. I checked with Tomo to verify this but he just doesnt want to argue with flip..With any comon sense a person can see that It cant be done..and I can't believe you cant see this..You havent got the mechanical ability I thought you had.Did you ask him the reading on each valve??All his test Is showing Is that the valves are closing and not leaking and the cyls and rings are not worn..He cannot tell what each valve Is reading..Above board Ha Just means your easer to bull**** than I thought. Lets get some real mechanics involved here.. (He then took the overhead cover off and checked the clearances while I was there) (All the clearances were within the Kawasaki Shop Manual limits.)
Thats the valve clearance ck..Not the compression or leak down ck..Read and try to comprehend Flipper..Hes a nom vet. so am I, what the hell does that mean..Is he gona come beat me up..Your a peach flipper..(If the compression pressure is within the specified limit and varies no more than 7% between each cylinder then the valve clearance is within specification").So If It varies more than 7% does that mean they are out of tolerance or you have a hole In a piston?? BJC

 

[busajack]

Jack, excellent question but I don't think for a minute a technician can answer it correctly and objectively and I don't see triumph as a corporation answering it obliquely either.



Lets see, we have an admission by a certified (I think) Triumph Technician that the valve adjustment is not needed at 10K or even 20K. But yet, the dealers charge for it at 10K nonetheless. It's an interesting scenario. Is supposedly honest and above board local Triumph dealer sticking it right up your exhaust pipe with charges for valve adjustment procedures or just checking the appropriate boxes on the sheet, never performing the work and smiling all the way to the bank along with the proceeds from the over priced Triumph OEM accessories. I have a bad feeling it's the latter in most cases.

Distill it down to this.....You get charged 800 to 1000 bucks for them to check the bike over (you hope), hook up the Triumph Diagnostic Tool and check the EFI and balance the throttle bodies, change the oil and maybe the final drive lube and hopefully wash the bike and fuel it. For between 800 and 1000 bucks. Maybe 250 thou to get a Triumph franchise and floor plan the bikes isn't such a bad investment. The return on service and accessories is phenominal........

Least I forget, I don't want to leave out the kid that might wash your bike before it leaves the dealership taking it out and beating the **** out of it to make sure that all the 'service' was performed correctly.

Then we get to the dealer who makes the comment to Rocky about 'was the 10K valve adjustment performed'? He knows that it has nothing to do with the timing chain rattle, he's not stupid though he knows we are or at least assumes we are. What a way to play cover my ass. This could get very interesting in the least.....read on the next post.....

But this friend of yours Is one of the honest ones EH..You dont, make much sense Flip.

 

[Sidecar Flip]

Jack:

Time to get your panties untwisted.

I never said he could ascertain the actual clearance by the compression check. I said and I'll say it one more time. Adam said that and I'll quote him..."If the compression pressure is within the specified limit and varies no more than 7% between each cylinder then the valve clearance is within specification". You are starting to remind me of some of my students. I tell you a hundred times and you still miss the point. Last Saturday I sat in his shop and watched him check the compression and then feeler gage the overhead. That's it. He said he'd be happy to discuss it with you anytime and no, he's a pacifist though he supports VVA just like Amy and I do. As far as my mechanical abilities go, if it's broke, usually I can fix it but I find no amusement or joy in wrenching on infernal combustion engines.

This whole 10K valve adjustment thing is just interesting in the least. Here we have a Triumph service tech admitting that most times, the valves are in proper clearance range but do they actually remove the valve/cam cover and check them or not? That's the 64 dollar question and if they don't, why do they charge for a service not performed.

Something smells like fish.......