Bike fatality already

[1olbull]

fyi, it appears that the bus turned left in front of the lady. grrrrr....

http://www.wspa.com/story/24750628/laurens-dist-55-bus-involved-in-deadly-accident-with-motorcycle

http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/24750259/coroner-called-laurens-co-crash

I have a hard time with the way that the facts are being presented. It says that the motorcycle collided with the bus as the bus was turning left. This gives the impression that the m/c rider was at fault. The reality, and the way it should be truthfully presented, it that the bus failed to yield the right-of-way and turned left in front of the motorcycle.

Stating who hit who is like determining half full or half empty - neither is correct or wrong.
Stating that a left turn collision is the result of failure to yield by the turning driver without having and properly digesting ALL the facts is incorrect.
Although perhaps generally true, there are many factors that could place the non turning driver at fault.
Even if a citation was issued, it is not admissible. The cop need only probable cause to issue it and was not a witness and also likely not a qualified collision reconstructionist.
Just sayin' . . .

 

[Gregger]

Stating who hit who is like determining half full or half empty - neither is correct or wrong.
Stating that a left turn collision is the result of failure to yield by the turning driver without having and properly digesting ALL the facts is incorrect.
Although perhaps generally true, there are many factors that could place the non turning driver at fault.
Even if a citation was issued, it is not admissible. The cop need only probable cause to issue it and was not a witness and also likely not a qualified collision reconstructionist.
Just sayin' . . .

I fully agree with 1olbull.

My wife was in an accident where she was charged for an improper left hand turn which resulted in the motorcyclist hitting the right rear quarter panel of my wagon destroying the car and bike. The rider flew quite a distance over the car and landed on his back down the road with a broken collar bone. As first blush, you would say she was guilty but we had some witnesses who stopped to testify (pedestrians and the following drivers). The motorist following the bike stated that it was travelling through town at a very high rate of speed (****** rocket). Since all the intersections were timed to turn green at the same time, the rider was trying to make them all. The bike wasn't his and he was late returning it to it's owner (his testimony). He had travelled through the previous intersection on a yellow light. He tried to make the next light one block away and was probably doing over 80 kph in the down town core where traffic rarely gets over 40 kph. The light was red when he finally arrived at the intersection only to find my wife finishing her turn. Cross traffic had already started to move.

In court she was found not guilty. She admits today that she was at fault somewhat in that she didn't see the bike. I wonder if the fellow had filed a lawsuit, what percentage of the accident she would have been responsible for??

 

[1olbull]

Gregger,
The speed of the motor could be verified with calculations using throw distance and fall height of the rider.
A large problem for motors is the car that has illegally staged within the intersection waiting for traffic to clear and then gets caught on a stale yellow, panics and turns in front of the oncoming motor. Additionally, the cage driver is likely watching the signal and can not see approaching traffic downstream.
These are complex cases and outcomes are dependent on the scene data available - signal sequence and timing, acceleration rate and distances traveled to impact as well as location of impact in the intersection and on the vehicles to name a few.

 

[Ogremeister]

US statistics...
3 motorcyclists per day are killed @ intersections

 

[Soonerman]

A

US statistics...
3 motorcyclists per day are killed @ intersections

Speaking as an old beat up insurance broker, I can tell you that it is your responsibility to yield to oncoming traffic if you are turning left. Regardless of the oncoming vehicles speed. You have a clear view of oncoming traffic, and in 25 yrs in the business never knew anyone turning left that was not deemed responsible for the accident. Some states with contributable neglagence laws would assign a certain percentage of blame(liability) on a speeder, but never 50% or more.

 

[ksquared]

A

Speaking as an old beat up insurance broker, I can tell you that it is your responsibility to yield to oncoming traffic if you are turning left. Regardless of the oncoming vehicles speed. You have a clear view of oncoming traffic, and in 25 yrs in the business never knew anyone turning left that was not deemed responsible for the accident. Some states with contributable neglagence laws would assign a certain percentage of blame(liability) on a speeder, but never 50% or more.

You never know what a given jury will do, but, on the whole - I tend to agree with the above. However, it definitely depends on the amount over the limit the speeder is traveling. 10 over - no big deal. 35 - 40 over - you're gonna lose that case.

 

[1olbull]

A

Speaking as an old beat up insurance broker, I can tell you that it is your responsibility to yield to oncoming traffic if you are turning left. Regardless of the oncoming vehicles speed. You have a clear view of oncoming traffic, and in 25 yrs in the business never knew anyone turning left that was not deemed responsible for the accident. Some states with contributable neglagence laws would assign a certain percentage of blame(liability) on a speeder, but never 50% or more.

After 44 years investigating collisions, I sure have - quite a few, in fact.
I will admit that most exceptions have been at unmarked intersections.

 

[Soonerman]

After 44 years investigating collisions, I sure have - quite a few, in fact.
I will admit that most exceptions have been at unmarked intersections.

I would be interested in hearing a couple of examples. Maybe it varies from state to state, but I can tell you, you better not turn left in front of someone in Arizona. (unmarked intersection, or not)

 

[1olbull]

I would be interested in hearing a couple of examples. Maybe it varies from state to state, but I can tell you, you better not turn left in front of someone in Arizona. (unmarked intersection, or not)

I have worked a few cases in AZ - none involved left turns and all were fatalities.
In fact I'll be flying into AZ in a couple weeks on business. If you be coming to Montrose we can talk.
Best Regards,
1olbull

 

[mully95]

I was ran off the road by a school bus a few years ago. I was in my truck and there was kids on the bus. I cleaned the ditch out trying avoid hitting the bus. After all the commotion I pulled over. The bus driver looked at me and then kept going. My friend who was riding with me was more angry than I was. Those bus drivers aren't the best drivers in the world. They are extremely dangerous in my honest opinion.