Need some help here ref GIPro/D&D/Tors/CRGs etc

Hi folks, Not sure if I should post here or in tech talk, just trying to pick the brains of you folks that will hopefully stop me wasting my money with bad decisions! I have a bunch of questions that maybe some of you can point me in the right direction ...

The deal is this - I bought my 2005 Rocket III a coupla months ++ ago and am having a blast - I am here in the USA and want to get everything sorted mechanically before I go back to the UK for the summer - here 'till mid April so want to get some riding in, back in the USA in September - basically I have 7,000 miles on the clock and the clutch is starting to go, a slight juddering on takeoff - my local dealership priced up the OEM clutch I think at around $230 plus, which seems very reasonable - then I got to thinking are there maybe some better options than stock? I was thinking of future HP upgrades I have in mind - would I be better off trying to find a heavy duty clutch kit? Any recommendations? I've found a nice looking Barnett CF kit, everything except the gasket, at just over $200-220 or so...

Second question - I have the TOR pipes already fitted when I bought the bike (Barney), with the cat litter tray still there alas! I want more power and a better/louder sound - so, I was lucky enough to get a brand new D&D slip on exhaust system thrown in with the deal when I bought the bike - the previous owner said it kept stalling on idle when he fitted it himself, I'm guessing it did not like the TOR tune - so he took it off and replaced the TORs back on the bike...

I was wondering which pipes put out more torque/grunt, if anyone knows?

So do I keep my Tors and spring $350 for the cat eliminator, or fit the D&D (for free), which bypasses the cat eleminator, and I think I will maybe have to spring for the stock tune as I think it was designed for that and not the TOR tune ... this way I can then sell the TORs here or on eBay to pay for the new clutch + labor fitting costs...

Question 3!!! I've ordered the GIPro through the group buy - I'm new to the GIPro so haven't read all the threads yet, and am quite confused, but it looks like I may get my best power bang for the buck by fitting the GIPro with a stock tune, so that makes the D&D option the one to go for? There seems to have been a lot of to and fro about the GIPro and different tunes...

I don't want to mess with a tuneboy or PCM yet as I will probably mess things up and am only here in the USA for another 9 weeks or so - so want to order all the parts and just get it all done asap...

The other thing is I have no real idea what the D&D sounds like, couldn't find much on you tube - but reading some threads here a lotta folks like the D&D...

Finally I am going to go for some CRG bar ends, 3 inches probably, again, anyone have experience with the 2 inch v 3 inch model, which to go for?

And I'll put on an OEM alarm and Stebel (sp) horn at the same time, LOL, not sure if I want to connect the alarm to the Stebel, might get sued for killing any would be thievs via ear rupturing!

BTW thanks all for the input with the crash bars, I went with OEM instead of Rivco and they look the dogz bollox!

Cheers!

Anders

I had D&D's for awhile and they work great, I just didn't like the naked left side of the bike without an exhaust to cover the drive shaft and rear end. The sound is different, I experimented by removing the baffles, first both and then just one. I think they sound best with one baffle removed from one of the pipes. However, I compare the sound more like a Cessna airplane than a bike.
The only bar ends I'm familiar with are the ThrottleMiester's, they are also a throttle lock for cruise control. They come in a couple sizes, I have the middle size but probably would have been happier with the big ones.
I posted my reasons for going with a PCIII over tuneboy on another thread, but I'll paste it below for you.

I'll go ahead and be the voice for a PCIII .....
The reasons I prefer the Power Commander over Tuneboy.
1) It's plug and play.
2) It does not change/alter the factory settings.
3) Everything can be put back to factory by removing it.
4) Mechanics are more familiar with them and if there is a problem, see reason #3.
5) Dyno tuning is easier and there are more shops equiped to tune with them.
6) No laptop required.
7) You can make small changes with buttons right on the PCIII box itself without permanently changing the tune.
8) when it comes time to sell, putting it back factory is just taking it out.

There are probably a couple more reasons, I just have a poor memory.

Here are the cons .... (and I don't really feel they are cons, just things you do to get the same results as Tuneboy)
1) You will need to remove the secondary throttle plates.
2) A GiPro is needed to eliminate the timing retard in 1-3 gears. (and you get a gear indicator as well)
3) Tuneboy guys will give you grief.

It really all depends on what you want and how you are with wrenches and computers. Exhaust, Triples, Secondaries, GiPro and PCIII will get you the same power as Tuneboy with Exhaust, Triples and Tuneboy, so there is no sacrifice when it comes to end result power and torque. You just have to remove the throttle plates and get a GiPro in addition to the PCIII itself, the plates are free and the GiPro is $145. I would have gotten the GiPro anyway just for the gear position indicator.

I hope this helps make your decision.

Hey Hellfire!

Nice to talk to you again, as ever you come up trumps!



I had D&D's for awhile and they work great, I just didn't like the naked left side of the bike without an exhaust to cover the drive shaft and rear end.


You know, I am beginning to think this way too, the 3rd muffler on the left gives balance to the bike - I guess we have to give a lot of credit to the designers, they put a lot of thought into the TORs, yes they are HEAVY, but they are OEM...

I found this comment on the only video (with sound) I could find for the D&Ds...

'dkjohannes (1 year ago)
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This video convinced me to buy the D&D exhaust ... I'm glad I did! I love the pipes, they dump all the BS weight, clean up the looks and sound AWSOME. I recomend D&D exhaust to all. (the jardin look cool, but these sound much better and cost alot less)
1981rocketman1981 (1 year ago)
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how much weight did you lose with though's D&D's? They do look good on! I held back on getting the Jardin's for mine not so shore i like the look all too much!...
dkjohannes (1 year ago)
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I would have to say at least 25lbs. It eliminated the big can and all the plumbing under the bike, and you would not believe how much the stock pipes themselvs weigh. Just the brackets that hold the pipes are thick chunks of steel, they go away too. The box the D&D's came in could be picked up with one arm, after putting all the stock parts back into the same box I could not lift it onto a shelf without help. The Jardin's don't have any heat shields, didn't want to get burned.'



The video is here:

YouTube - Triumph Rocket 3


I was running recently with some HDs, one guy had spent 45K, GF on the back, at each set of lights I creamed him, roll-on too, and not even trying, I doubt I went over 4k! LOL, I digress...



The sound is different, I experimented by removing the baffles, first both and then just one. I think they sound best with one baffle removed from one of the pipes. However, I compare the sound more like a Cessna airplane than a bike.



I see (hear) what you mean, see the vid above, but then again the guy was not using any revs...



The only bar ends I'm familiar with are the ThrottleMiester's,



Well CRGs are really bar end mirrors, I have zero sight in my right eye and cannot ride confidently without knowing wtf is going on behind me (my next project may be an LCD screen on the Thunderbike bars I have, with 2 cameras facing rearwards right and left - dunno what the Cops here in FL wd think tho...), and more to the point what is coming up quickly in traffic on either side of me, of course if I had my way and wasn't worried about tickets all the time I would have (almost) no problems ... making good fast progress and leaving the traffic behind...



they are also a throttle lock for cruise control. They come in a couple sizes, I have the middle size but probably would have been happier with the big ones.



Thanks for that! I'll look into throttle locks when I get back next autumns and maybe do some road trips...




I posted my reasons for going with a PCIII over tuneboy on another thread, but I'll paste it below for you.

I'll go ahead and be the voice for a PCIII .....
The reasons I prefer the Power Commander over Tuneboy.
1) It's plug and play.
2) It does not change/alter the factory settings.
3) Everything can be put back to factory by removing it.
4) Mechanics are more familiar with them and if there is a problem, see reason #3.
5) Dyno tuning is easier and there are more shops equiped to tune with them.
6) No laptop required.
7) You can make small changes with buttons right on the PCIII box itself without permanently changing the tune.
8) when it comes time to sell, putting it back factory is just taking it out.

There are probably a couple more reasons, I just have a poor memory.



Hey, these are gold...



Here are the cons .... (and I don't really feel they are cons, just things you do to get the same results as Tuneboy)



Again more confusion, is this essential for optimum? Maybe i shd get the cat bypass, stick with the TORs, sell the D&D here or on eBay, no need for a new OEM TOR tune, then fit the GIPro? I really just want more power and an easy life for the next 9 or 10 weeks here in the USA, when I come back I will have 6 months here to play, thinking of a supercharger or turbo, a PCM and other stuff at the minimum ... !



1) You will need to remove the secondary throttle plates.
2) A GiPro is needed to eliminate the timing retard in 1-3 gears. (and you get a gear indicator as well)
3) Tuneboy guys will give you grief.

It really all depends on what you want and how you are with wrenches and computers.



I used to be quite good but my near sight 3d vision is shot, so is a PITA working up close - now I'd rather go have a few beers and pay someone who knows what they are doing to screw things up better than I normally do!



Exhaust, Triples,



Great! Here, I am thinking of a CF half bear claw and maybe RASSK open (old-fashioned trumpet-look) ones...



Secondaries, GiPro and PCIII will get you the same power as Tuneboy with Exhaust, Triples and Tuneboy, so there is no sacrifice when it comes to end result power and torque. You just have to remove the throttle plates and get a GiPro in addition to the PCIII itself, the plates are free and the GiPro is $145. I would have gotten the GiPro anyway just for the gear position indicator.

I hope this helps make your decision.




Yes it very much helps, thanks HF!!! I had a chance on craigs a month back for a brand new PCM for 200 but I missed it...


Cheers and all best!

Anders

Anders said:

You know, I am beginning to think this way too, the 3rd muffler on the left gives balance to the bike - I guess we have to give a lot of credit to the designers, they put a lot of thought into the TORs, yes they are HEAVY, but they are OEM...


Again more confusion, is this essential for optimum? Maybe i shd get the cat bypass, stick with the TORs, sell the D&D here or on eBay, no need for a new OEM TOR tune, then fit the GIPro? I really just want more power and an easy life for the next 9 or 10 weeks here in the USA, when I come back I will have 6 months here to play, thinking of a supercharger or turbo, a PCM and other stuff at the minimum ... !



Yes it very much helps, thanks HF!!! I had a chance on craigs a month back for a brand new PCM for 200 but I missed it...

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I did like the D&D's, the right side of the bike looked great and the weight savings was substantial. I just got tired of my wife telling me the left side looked naked, after awhile I started to agree with her. Getting rid of the cat box will not only help with the performance upgrades you do later, the pipes get louder too.
There is a PCIII for sale here in the classifieds, he says it's brand new in the box. He's asking $250 w/shipping included, not bad.
The triple K&N's will fit under the claw without cutting, so you wouldn't have to chop it up right away. Take your time and come up with something clean and unique. I ran them under the claw for along time before I got up the nerve to start trimming.
If you remove the secondaries and install the GiPro, it will feel like a different bike from just that. The Tuneboy has it's advantages and there is alot of support around the site for tunes and help with problems, it just wasn't for me. I jokingly call changing the bikes factory ECM program a "lobotomy", only because if I was buying a used bike I'd be nervous about one being altered that deeply. Whichever way you decide, decide BEFORE you start making changes and spending money, that way you won't have to back up and start over. I ended up with 4 sets of exhaust before I decided to stick with the TOR's, I did get everything sold but the stock set, but still lost a few bucks by screwing around.
Should you end up going with something similar to my set-up, let me know if you want a copy of my PCIII tune. It's also a good idea to get the items related to tuning all together and doing it all at once, that way you aren't running around too lean or too rich.
Good luck and remember ... Speed Thrills!

D&D exhaust

I have the D&D pipes on my 2008 standard with 12 minute tune. I noticed allot of decel pop until I read another post and started to use lower octane gas. I thought everything runs better on high octane well not so. My Rocket seems to run better with much less decel pop on 87 octane. I have Gi-pro have not installed yet. I too wish D&D would have made it 3 pipes to balance the bike. However, I really like the those shorty pipes on another post but abit pricey. Next time I am in the states I plan on installing the Gipro. As far as the sound it's not bad really, wish it was deeper but it's ok.

Hellwalker said:

I have the D&D pipes on my 2008 standard with 12 minute tune. I noticed allot of decel pop until I read another post and started to use lower octane gas. I thought everything runs better on high octane well not so. My Rocket seems to run better with much less decel pop on 87 octane. I have Gi-pro have not installed yet. I too wish D&D would have made it 3 pipes to balance the bike. However, I really like the those shorty pipes on another post but abit pricey. Next time I am in the states I plan on installing the Gipro. As far as the sound it's not bad really, wish it was deeper but it's ok.

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I played around with the baffles while I had them, taking both out made it way too loud but just removing one gave them a deeper tone without sounding like a shotgun. Taking the one out of the lower one seemed to give it the lowest note. They are wrapped in fiberglass, I didn't try it but maybe removing some of it could change the tone as well. I posted a fairly easy way to remove the baffles awhile back if your interested. I was also having trouble with the popping and got rid of most of it by sealing up the connection better. When exhaust sucks in fresh air around a poorly sealed connection it causes the gasses to ignite in the pipe. I pulled it back apart and used some exhaust sealer in a tube on the connection before putting it back on, it helped alot.
You are right about it needing that third pipe on the left, it hides alot of ugly including the starter hanging down in plain view. I shot it with black spray paint to help hide it a little better.

I hope this goes with the post still and not to far off

A D&D guy told me over the phone (when I called about removing baffles actually before I bought them) the back pressure from baffles is necessary for the bike to run properly with out burning up the motor or doing some type of damage etc? Now I am not the sharpest tack in the drawer, but is there any merit at all. My Vulcan had straight pipes no baffles when I got her from original owner. I am pretty sure I played with a few 350 Chevy's with straight pipes as a kid. Every time I buy a lawnmower the dang muffler rust off after first season still runs good? Is there any merit to problems with removing baffles if not I would like to try Hellfires trick on my lower pipe..... wouldn't a 12 minute tune work fine?

I have 2" CRG bar end mirrors on my R3 and one of my BMW's. Dispite only being two inches they are high quality convex mirror and I can see behind me very well. I have no experence with the 3" mirrors.

http://www.r3owners.net/custom-mods/6907-crg-2-mirrors.html

Hellwalker said:

A D&D guy told me over the phone (when I called about removing baffles actually before I bought them) the back pressure from baffles is necessary for the bike to run properly with out burning up the motor or doing some type of damage etc? Now I am not the sharpest tack in the drawer, but is there any merit at all. My Vulcan had straight pipes no baffles when I got her from original owner. I am pretty sure I played with a few 350 Chevy's with straight pipes as a kid. Every time I buy a lawnmower the dang muffler rust off after first season still runs good? Is there any merit to problems with removing baffles if not I would like to try Hellfires trick on my lower pipe..... wouldn't a 12 minute tune work fine?

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All I can tell ya is that I ran it like that for 6 months before picking up a used set of TOR's. They kept getting the same amount of black carbon inside the ends after a bath as they did with the baffles installed, so there wasn't a huge change in the mixture either way. I never noticed any change in the way it ran, just how it sounded. I figgured they were low restriction pipes anyway, whats the difference whether they had the sound baffles in them or not? Know what I mean? A two stroke engine needs a certain amount of back pressure but four strokes aren't so sensitive to it.
Whatever you feel comfortable with I guess. If you type removing D&D baffles in the search box, it should take you to the thread I made on what tool I used to get them out.

Hey folks, I am pressed for time babysitting, but just wanted to thank you all for you input - I guess I am now heading for sticking with the TORs, get a cat bypass delete job, still, no big rush, coupla weeks...