RocketmanBristol

Supercharged
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
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427
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2004 Rocket 3
While changing the Rockets indicators and relocating the horn obviously having the tank up seemed a good time to check out the map sensor pipes and 4 way connector.
No obvious splits or perishing ,but the shorter of the 4 pipes from the connector to the map itself seems a little too loose,should these pipes have spring clips on? There is a clip on the parts diagram but not clear to me how many and which pipe/pipes it fits on. Also if I replace the pipes do I have to go with the genuine shaped Triumph parts or will silicone vacuum hose do the job?
 
While changing the Rockets indicators and relocating the horn obviously having the tank up seemed a good time to check out the map sensor pipes and 4 way connector.
No obvious splits or perishing ,but the shorter of the 4 pipes from the connector to the map itself seems a little too loose,should these pipes have spring clips on? There is a clip on the parts diagram but not clear to me how many and which pipe/pipes it fits on. Also if I replace the pipes do I have to go with the genuine shaped Triumph parts or will silicone vacuum hose do the job?

they don't come with spring clips from factory anyway.
that clip in the parts fiche is the one that just holds the tubing up off the engine.

you'll get away with using 3mm silicon vacuum hose, just make sure they are the same lengths as the existing OEM ones (don't ask me how i know this :oops:)

although in this case the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind :)
 
they don't come with spring clips from factory anyway.
that clip in the parts fiche is the one that just holds the tubing up off the engine.

you'll get away with using 3mm silicon vacuum hose, just make sure they are the same lengths as the existing OEM ones (don't ask me how i know this :oops:)

although in this case the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind :)


Thanks Turbo, couldn’t make out what the clip was for, I do now! May I ask what happens if the incorrect length hose is used?

I keep doing this,wish I had taken the advice above,lol, thought while I was doing all the other jobs on the Rocket I would do the starter solenoid quick fix, ha ha broken the bloody battery terminal trying to get the connector loose, can of worms this bike!
 
I don't want to speculate or spread misinformation but my understanding is that since you have 1 MAP sensor to read the manifold pressure values for 3 throttles the ECU reading the info/reporting the info must know which cylinder is inducting at that time to assign that MAP value to that cylinder.
It must do this by reference point such as the crank position sensor.

I also assume triumph have the ecu set to take the MAP value for each throttle when it's corresponding cylinder is at a certain point in the induction stroke e.g. Bottom dead centre or there abouts.
It might be when peak vacuum is achieved by an inducting cylinder.
This is known by crankshaft position in degrees and there are 360 degrees between CPS blips and cylinders in a triple are 120 degrees apart.

Anyway let's say you are just idling, at say 850rpm - that means there are many induction events happening per second.

This means that the ECU has a fraction of a second to take the presumably optimum or peak pressure in the manifold for each cylinder

If that timing is put off then the engine won't run optimally. Too low a vacuum reading and (taking fueling for example) too much fuel will be injected, too high a vacuum reading and not enough fuel will be injected.
That's the way the fueling table works at low throttle positions.
See a low vacuum makes the ecu think the throttle is wide open so in such a case you'd need lot more fuel so it fires in more making you run rich and maybe bog and die.

Anyway if you picture a tube it has a certain volume of air in it. This volume needs to be sucked out by the engine vacuum in a fraction of a second in order so that the vacuum pressure in the manifold it equal to the vacuum pressure at the MAP sensor itself.

If you have a longer pipe, then it takes longer for the pressure to equalise in it, and as we established the timing has to he perfect of when the optimum pressure is achieved at the MAP, therefore the MAP might not read the peak vacuum, it will read prematurely.

Premature reading will be a lower vacuum than should be there and that means too much fuel.

Conversely too short a pipe and the optimum pressure condition reaches the MAP too early and is then on the decline by the time the ECU notes the MAP value.

You can map the fueling to compensate I. E. If your tubes are longer then you can take out fuel to compensate for the lower vacuum.
But that's only if your 3 tubes are the same length (and diameter.. this affects volume).

If your tubes are different lengths then you'll need to map by cylinder which would be a nightmare

Either way this is just messing when there is no reason not to use same length and diameter tubing.


Basically inequal length (or different length to OEM) vacuum hosing affects quality of MAP readings and upsets fuelling and ignition.

Anyway that's my understanding I could be talking shi'ite :roll:
 
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I don't want to speculate or spread misinformation but my understanding is that since you have 1 MAP sensor to read the manifold pressure values for 3 throttles the ECU reading the info/reporting the info must know which cylinder is inducting at that time to assign that MAP value to that cylinder.
It must do this by reference point such as the crank position sensor.

I also assume triumph have the ecu set to take the MAP value for each throttle when it's corresponding cylinder is at a certain point in the induction stroke e.g. Bottom dead centre or there abouts.
It might be when peak vacuum is achieved by an inducting cylinder.
This is known by crankshaft position in degrees and there are 360 degrees between CPS blips and cylinders in a triple are 120 degrees apart.

Anyway let's say you are just idling, at say 850rpm - that means there are many induction events happening per second.

This means that the ECU has a fraction of a second to take the presumably optimum or peak pressure in the manifold for each cylinder

If that timing is put off then the engine won't run optimally. Too low a vacuum reading and (taking fueling for example) too much fuel will be injected, too high a vacuum reading and not enough fuel will be injected.
That's the way the fueling table works at low throttle positions.
See a low vacuum makes the ecu think the throttle is wide open so in such a case you'd need lot more fuel so it fires in more making you run rich and maybe bog and die.

Anyway if you picture a tube it has a certain volume of air in it. This volume needs to be sucked out by the engine vacuum in a fraction of a second in order so that the vacuum pressure in the manifold it equal to the vacuum pressure at the MAP sensor itself.

If you have a longer pipe, then it takes longer for the pressure to equalise in it, and as we established the timing has to he perfect of when the optimum pressure is achieved at the MAP, therefore the MAP might not read the peak vacuum, it will read prematurely.

Premature reading will be a lower vacuum than should be there and that means too much fuel.

Conversely too short a pipe and the optimum pressure condition reaches the MAP too early and is then on the decline by the time the ECU notes the MAP value.

You can map the fueling to compensate I. E. If your tubes are longer then you can take out fuel to compensate for the lower vacuum.
But that's only if your 3 tubes are the same length (and diameter.. this affects volume).

If your tubes are different lengths then you'll need to map by cylinder which would be a nightmare

Either way this is just messing when there is no reason not to use same length and diameter tubing.


Basically inequal length (or different length to OEM) vacuum hosing affects quality of MAP readings and upsets fuelling and ignition.

Anyway that's my understanding I could be talking shi'ite :roll:


Thanks Turbo
Very detailed explanation even if it may be ****e lol
 
While changing the Rockets indicators and relocating the horn obviously having the tank up seemed a good time to check out the map sensor pipes and 4 way connector.
No obvious splits or perishing ,but the shorter of the 4 pipes from the connector to the map itself seems a little too loose,should these pipes have spring clips on? There is a clip on the parts diagram but not clear to me how many and which pipe/pipes it fits on. Also if I replace the pipes do I have to go with the genuine shaped Triumph parts or will silicone vacuum hose do the job?
 
Hi i just picked up my 05 rocket 3 and found one of the hoses out of the group of 4 that go to the map sensor to be loose it is the one that goes closest to the rider, can someone sshow me where that needs to plug into please
 
@Sage1997

While changing the Rockets indicators and relocating the horn obviously having the tank up seemed a good time to check out the map sensor pipes and 4 way connector.
No obvious splits or perishing ,but the shorter of the 4 pipes from the connector to the map itself seems a little too loose,should these pipes have spring clips on? There is a clip on the parts diagram but not clear to me how many and which pipe/pipes it fits on. Also if I replace the pipes do I have to go with the genuine shaped Triumph parts or will silicone vacuum hose do the job?


you can use non Triumph hoses, just make sure they (a) proper vacuum hose and not fuel hose or something made for positive pressure, and (b) are the same internal diameter and length as the originals.
 
Hi i just picked up my 05 rocket 3 and found one of the hoses out of the group of 4 that go to the map sensor to be loose it is the one that goes closest to the rider, can someone sshow me where that needs to plug into please

This pic points to the general direction of where the 3 narrower & longer tubes connect to

20210328_124504.jpg



This pic is of the throttle bodies off the bike but you can clearly see the vacuum nipples.
Green marked ones are the 3 that connect via those 3 longer narrower tubes to the 3 into 1 collector, which feeds the MAP sensor via the shorter wider tube.

The yellow shows the other set of vacuum nipples, which are blanked usually. They are only used if you have a california model which has some evaporative loss recovery crap under the left panel, this is connected to those other 3 vac nipples.
These can be used for something like a BOV if you are going forced induction.

The blue nipple is a 3rd bonus on on the rear throttle only
20210328_124635.jpg
 
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