Jardines vs TORS and bypass

PHATDAD said:

OK, Back to my original question, who has ridden with both exhausts and can tell me which is deeper, rumblier, bassier and meaner? Should I sell my TORS/Bypass and upgrade to the more pricey Jardines?
Thanks a heap,
Duane

Click to expand...

I've had my bike with TOR's/cat bypass right next to one with jardines. We both revved and revved. I didn't hear much difference. The jardines may be a bit louder and deeper but in a more muffled way than the TOR's. The TOR's sound gnarly and I like them. You've already spent about $800. You spend another $1000 for jardines and get a few more HP.

You should really go out of your way to hear the real thing before squandering more money.

Silver Bullet said:

Doug: The decel pop I am experiencing is very noticable in the RPM range from 1800 RPM down to idle. In city traffic it is very annoying. Yes the tuneup you gave me is a vast improvement over any I have tried.
QUESTION: What do you suppose the result will be if one were to increase the percentile through the effected RPM range only on the "o" setting line? Do you still think It would make the engine sluggish under power through that range? Currently I don't find the tune you gave me to cause sluggish response at all...in fact it is very crisp on the throttle response.
In part, I don't think a dyno tuner is what is needed as power is still in the tuneup only on decel does it lean out and bang away. You may be on the right track in accepting this noise and it could be that I either learn to love the decel pop or get rid of the bike.
First I would like to try everything I can to get rid of the popping. I do find it curious that no one has commented on whether the decel pop is still so evident with the Jars as opposed to the TORs....HMMMM.....SB.

Click to expand...

The L tables vary the fuel with manifold pressure. From zero when the throttle is closed, where you have the biggest pressure drop, to wide open, where there is no pressure drop. Most of my popping happens with the throttle closed with the engine under load under decel. That's why I thought Wayne changed the values in the 0 row of the tables.

It can't hurt to experiment. Just keep the original copy.

The Jardines are supposed to be more free flowing than the TOR's so you should get more popping with the same tune. My dealer, who does a lot of harley performance tuning, says they all need PCIII tuning to get rid of that backfiring.

Getting rid of the bike seems a bit extreme. You could put one or more of the stock mufflers back on. That would help too.

Popping on deceleration is from a lean condition. It can be really bad with bikes with catalytic systems in place. Manufacturers tend to tune low throttle/load positions very lean for reduced emissions. Bikes with air evacuation systems have the same problems where air is pulled from the air box into the exhaust.

When the throttle is suddenly closed on an engine, the lean condition that results causes a spike in exhaust gas temps (EGT's). And compression braking can keep the engine at higher rpm than it wants to be at. The result is hot exhaust temps that can make any irregularity in the system (weld splatter, rough internal edges, etc.) act like a glow plug. Pockets of richer air/fuel mixes in the exhaust come along and are ignited. POP, pop, pop.

You may notice that it is worse in hotter weather. Hotter air into the engine means hotter gasses out of it. A touch of fuel at the right place and time can help cool the exhaust gasses.

Try adding fuel at the two lowest load points from several hundred rpm above idle to max rpm. Start with adding 2% of the values in these lines, and check the results. More will likely be needed at higher rpm.

If you add too much, you can load up the plugs or cause idling issues after deceleration, but a bit of fuel at low throttle positions can help cool and lubricate the cylinders when the throttle is closed rapidly.

I hope this helps.

dougl said:

I've had my bike with TOR's/cat bypass right next to one with jardines. We both revved and revved. I didn't hear much difference. The jardines may be a bit louder and deeper but in a more muffled way than the TOR's. The TOR's sound gnarly and I like them. You've already spent about $800. You spend another $1000 for jardines and get a few more HP.

You should really go out of your way to hear the real thing before squandering more money.

Click to expand...

Well, being a typical Independant Yankee from Maine, I bought my Cat bypass and TORs used for only $400 or the equivalent of a few gallons of gas.
I like the sound, especially after experimenting with 3 then 1 and finally 2 TORS pipes. Yep, thats right, I am running w/ 2 TORS and I like the overall tone better than 3 ! 1 TOR on each side with a stock "dummy" pipe on the upper right side to F__k with the cops that pull me over for loud pipes. I show them the legal pipe that is closest to there Jellly Rolls and the accept that I have legal Pipes. They are too fat to bend over to check the others.
I guess I will stick with the TORs for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
Phatdad

PHATDAD said:

Yep, thats right, I am running w/ 2 TORS and I like the overall tone better than 3 !

Click to expand...

My dealer did that with his Rocket.