Engineers: Do We All Need Autotune?

IMFASTTOO said:

Thats right there is no reason to go over 85 mph

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there is if the cop behind you is doing 90

captain jack said:

Think I'll just take your word for it Chris.

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Good man - as I'm not sure I want to have to explain it again. Then again - I do understand Macclesfield-speak - Just.

Nice to read this thread!! Lot of technical things!! With some basic knowledge of Emission calibration of CNG engines for Euro III, I would like to post the following doubts,

1. The OEM calibration of the ECM ( Electronic control module) does it not include the temperature and humidity corrections factors?? There is a sensor for intake air temperature. Will the performance still change for the humidity variations. I don't think by a large scale, maybe its minimal and even difficult to notice.
2. I think Rocket is a stoichiometric Engine and it doesn't need a UEGO sensor.
3. I saw few Turbo charged rockets, Will the design BMEP of the engine ok enough to handle the turbo. Are there any cooling systems changes required for the TC rockets, heat ranges of Spark plugs, ignition coils etc??
4. Is Tune ecu the same software OEM Utilizes to calibrate the ECM?? I dont think so?
5. Why only few bike models of ECM are left free for editing options using the aftermarket software and why others are not??
6. Since the OEM ( Triumph) agreed to de- restrict the speeds in the first three gears of 2012 models. Are the dealers doing them with the Tune ECU or they have separate calibration file for the de restriction??

Its just for info sake and not to contradict some experts here, who have hands on knowledge of working with the ROCKET engine in the dynamometer and emission analyzers!!

Zen2osho said:

Nice to read this thread!! Lot of technical things!! With some basic knowledge of Emission calibration of CNG engines for Euro III, I would like to post the following doubts,

1. The OEM calibration of the ECM ( Electronic control module) does it not include the temperature and humidity corrections factors?? There is a sensor for intake air temperature. Will the performance still change for the humidity variations. I don't think by a large scale, maybe its minimal and even difficult to notice.
2. I think Rocket is a stoichiometric Engine and it doesn't need a UEGO sensor.
3. I saw few Turbo charged rockets, Will the design BMEP of the engine ok enough to handle the turbo. Are there any cooling systems changes required for the TC rockets, heat ranges of Spark plugs, ignition coils etc??
4. Is Tune ecu the same software OEM Utilizes to calibrate the ECM?? I dont think so?
5. Why only few bike models of ECM are left free for editing options using the aftermarket software and why others are not??
6. Since the OEM ( Triumph) agreed to de- restrict the speeds in the first three gears of 2012 models. Are the dealers doing them with the Tune ECU or they have separate calibration file for the de restriction??

Its just for info sake and not to contradict some experts here, who have hands on knowledge of working with the ROCKET engine in the dynamometer and emission analyzers!!

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IMO one of the two most technically proficient (Rocketwise) tuners on this list was Power-Tripp. In a post on 7-29-11 he wrote: "You are going to want to be around 13.0-13.1 at peak power (6000 rpm) at WOT, tapering to 13.2 at 6500 rpm. At peak torque rpm, you are going to want to be a bit richer ~12.8-12.9."

Zen2osho said:

Nice to read this thread!! Lot of technical things!! With some basic knowledge of Emission calibration of CNG engines for Euro III, I would like to post the following doubts,

1. The OEM calibration of the ECM ( Electronic control module) does it not include the temperature and humidity corrections factors?? There is a sensor for intake air temperature. Will the performance still change for the humidity variations. I don't think by a large scale, maybe its minimal and even difficult to notice.
2. I think Rocket is a stoichiometric Engine and it doesn't need a UEGO sensor.
3. I saw few Turbo charged rockets, Will the design BMEP of the engine ok enough to handle the turbo. Are there any cooling systems changes required for the TC rockets, heat ranges of Spark plugs, ignition coils etc??
4. Is Tune ecu the same software OEM Utilizes to calibrate the ECM?? I dont think so?
5. Why only few bike models of ECM are left free for editing options using the aftermarket software and why others are not??
6. Since the OEM ( Triumph) agreed to de- restrict the speeds in the first three gears of 2012 models. Are the dealers doing them with the Tune ECU or they have separate calibration file for the de restriction??

Its just for info sake and not to contradict some experts here, who have hands on knowledge of working with the ROCKET engine in the dynamometer and emission analyzers!!

Click to expand...

When your talking about Forced Air rockets they are of the few one the sites. I believe the Supercharged ones out number the 3 turbo units I can think of right now but the SC does not have a whole bunch more. I can think of 8 or 9 I can think of not all post on the sites much. I am sure Richard at TTS has done a bunch more especially since his kit has gotten so much better quality wise and ease for a regular mechanic to do the install. Just like I am sure there are a few more turbo out there. Not as many from boost as good because I hear they are hard to get a hold of. and well you need to have a pocket full of money if you want a Echo Cycle kit. So of us SC guys have a good amount of miles on the unit. I have a little over 40,000 miles on my blower and it is still going strong. I think Ruzz just had to change his out and I believe Pedro still has his original on his 04/05 model.

As for Cooling systems as far as I know none have been increased. In fact both can come with or without inter cooler systems. I have had mine for so long I doubt if I will ever own just a NA bike. As for the pistons well it depends on how much boost you are going to thro at her and whether you are going to cool the intake charge. I have run both and myself I would change them out for a better forged set especially if you can get a larger top ring land.

As for the sensors I am sure they were calibrated in the design model but since they are mas produced it would depend on how the QA Department has there checks set at which means as everything else you buy bad ones can get by and there is a better chance that you will end up with a good one or at least one that operated within its given tolerances.

I myself am a firm believer of getting your bike on a good braking dyno or Like Wayne Tripp is find one who is good at tuning period. I have used both on mine Wayne to do my initial tuning but as the power grew on the bike so did the ability to monitor and change things on the fly.

Thank God there are people like Nev and Wayne out there that help other shops learn the Tune Boy and Tune ecu software. As we all know we are short on Rocket tuners in the USA especially ones that don't just know Power commander stuff.
Like I stated above all these tuning aids are getting better every year. I myself cannot wait to try the new tune boy advance software I bought as it link the ECU with the innovate Logworks3 and tune boy via a wireless WB-01 plugged into the OT-2 )BDII Logger This logger connects everything as one unit and I will be able to also link my extra innovate A/F meter up to watch it work. Wide band fueling adjustments made via tun boy. Its nice to see these two companies work in conjunction with each other.

If you get the proper A/F ratio on the dyno at each RPM using the PC III-V, why on Earth would you need a continuous O2 sensor?