Electrical issue Denali soundbomb horn help!

Jag · Feb 14, 2018

Gentlemen, Need to pick your brains on a electrical issue I’m having with my brand new install on said horn, relay PDM60 and compressor!!

Here the story:
Programmed the PDM60 circuit #5 to 20amps.

Wired the relay as pictured above.

Purple/black from oem horn location to #85 on relay. Negative is being switched.

Black/blue from oem horn location to #86 on relay. Positive constant hot.

Circuit #5 on PDM to #30 on the relay.

Red wire from +terminal on compressor to #87 on the relay.

Black wire from -terminal on compressor to isolated ground buss.

Problem is everything works perfectly with the bike in ignition mode (key switch on but not running) only.
When I start the engine I push the horn switch the horn sounds for 1 second then trips the #5 circuit on the PDM60 Trips open (red led). Turn bike off, (reset) repeat process above and same thing happens!!

Question are:

What is the difference between running and not running??

Do I have a back feed?
Do I need to install a diode or a relay with a diode??

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!
@DEcosse you out there??

Thanks guys!!

DEcosse · Feb 14, 2018

I'll give you more later when can review your post on pc (rather than phone)
But for pdm60 you don't need relay, drive horn directly from pdm60 and use the purple/black as a NEGATIVE trigger connected to the pdm60 blue wire (& set the programming to that channel for Ignition AND Negative Trigger)

Paul Bryant · Feb 15, 2018

I installed one of these a couple of weeks ago, wired exactly as per wiring diagram, 2006 model bike, no problems what so ever.

By the way it was real good to have a Train horn when some dork in an Cage wanted to be way too close

DEcosse · Feb 15, 2018

Jag said:
....
Problem is everything works perfectly with the bike in ignition mode (key switch on but not running) only.
When I start the engine I push the horn switch the horn sounds for 1 second then trips the #5 circuit on the PDM60 Trips open (red led). Turn bike off, (reset) repeat process above and same thing happens!!

What is the difference between running and not running??

The difference between running vs just ignition (with lights on too remember) is that the voltage is significantly higher with engine running;
higher voltage then means that the horn will draw higher current also.
The difference in why the PDM trips is probably from the surge current at initiation - the initial spike is probably just above the threshold in the detector circuit and trips that circuit.
It probably won't trip if triggering the circuit directly from the negative trigger - the way you have it is that the PDM60 circuit is actually already triggered, then you are suddenly going from zero load (relay off) to full surge load (relay on)

Again, just get rid of the relay altogether - it's completely superfluous with the PDM60

(ignore all the other circuits, which you should configure per your own requirements - but follow the wiring and programming for the Brown Circuit)

^ Note the programming for circuit 5 (Brown) is Ignition AND Ground Trigger - i.e. it needs BOTH to make the circuit active; so if you press horn button with ignition off, it won't come on; and the horn won't be on with ignition on until you actually operate the horn button.
You only need the Purple/Black wire from horn, the positive is not used

Jag · Feb 15, 2018

DEcosse said:
The difference between running vs just ignition (with lights on too remember) is that the voltage is significantly higher with engine running;
higher voltage then means that the horn will draw higher current also.
The difference in why the PDM trips is probably from the surge current at initiation - the initial spike is probably just above the threshold in the detector circuit and trips that circuit.
It probably won't trip if triggering the circuit directly from the negative trigger - the way you have it is that the PDM60 circuit is actually already triggered, then you are suddenly going from zero load (relay off) to full surge load (relay on)

Again, just get rid of the relay altogether - it's completely superfluous with the PDM60

(ignore all the other circuits, which you should configure per your own requirements - but follow the wiring and programming for the Brown Circuit)

^ Note the programming for circuit 5 (Brown) is Ignition AND Ground Trigger - i.e. it needs BOTH to make the circuit active; so if you press horn button with ignition off, it won't come on; and the horn won't be on with ignition on until you actually operate the horn button.
You only need the Purple/Black wire from horn, the positive is not used

Thanks a lot buddy I will do what you are saying!! Your way is a lot less wiring then the way I did it!!
Your explanation totally makes sense!
How come triumph switches the negative on so many circuits instead of the hots? What’s the advantage??
Thanks again!!

Jag · Feb 15, 2018

DEcosse said:
The difference between running vs just ignition (with lights on too remember) is that the voltage is significantly higher with engine running;
higher voltage then means that the horn will draw higher current also.
The difference in why the PDM trips is probably from the surge current at initiation - the initial spike is probably just above the threshold in the detector circuit and trips that circuit.
It probably won't trip if triggering the circuit directly from the negative trigger - the way you have it is that the PDM60 circuit is actually already triggered, then you are suddenly going from zero load (relay off) to full surge load (relay on)

Again, just get rid of the relay altogether - it's completely superfluous with the PDM60

(ignore all the other circuits, which you should configure per your own requirements - but follow the wiring and programming for the Brown Circuit)

^ Note the programming for circuit 5 (Brown) is Ignition AND Ground Trigger - i.e. it needs BOTH to make the circuit active; so if you press horn button with ignition off, it won't come on; and the horn won't be on with ignition on until you actually operate the horn button.
You only need the Purple/Black wire from horn, the positive is not used

Thanks again Ken, wired her up the way your schematic shows, reprogrammed the module and the same thing is happening. Still works continuously ignition on work for about two seconds with engine running, but automatically resets and I can immediately sound the horn again.

circuit5 red inactive and green when sounding horn?

I’m guessing red because of ground trigger??

Not sure if this in normal??

Please advise.
Thanks Jim.

DEcosse · Feb 15, 2018

Can I see screenshot of your program file?

I think is really Orange not red, but yes should only go green once triggered
It sounds like you are over the current limit if it's tripping

Jag · Feb 15, 2018

DEcosse said:
Can I see screenshot of your program file?

I think is really Orange not red, but yes should only go green once triggered
It sounds like you are over the current limit if it's tripping

My neighbor helped me program the module, I only have apple computers my ibm is a desk top. I might be able to get him back over later tonight.

I’ll double check the color!
Directions say 30amps for compressor, but pdf said to use a 20 amp fuse and that is what I programmed circuit 5 to instead of 18 like it showed on your diagram.

I wish the cable programming port was on the front of the unit. Where I mounted it pita taking it in and out!

Is their a way to see what the what you programmed? It always shows the default settings when you hook her up to the computer.

The PDM is a nice unit but for the computer illiterate like me the directions are a bit Vague!!

DEcosse · Feb 15, 2018

The software/firmware leaves lot to be desired i have to say; there is no way to see what you have in it, only what you create and get a 'programming successful' confirmation.
I would also caution not to use any constant power circuits- it creates a pretty significant standing drain that will kill a motorcycle battery; so that feature is pretty much unusable.
If it's tripping then, if you are confident programmed to max 20A then potentially it really is exceeding that draw. It's obviously very close to the limit given it doesn't trip with just ignition but does when running
Not familiar with that horn but sounds like could have significant current draw. Of course you wouldn't see this with just a relay.

Jag · Feb 15, 2018

DEcosse said:
The software/firmware leaves lot to be desired i have to say; there is no way to see what you have in it, only what you create and get a 'programming successful' confirmation.
I would also caution not to use any constant power circuits- it creates a pretty significant standing drain that will kill a motorcycle battery; so that feature is pretty much unusable.
If it's tripping then, if you are confident programmed to max 20A then potentially it really is exceeding that draw. It's obviously very close to the limit given it doesn't trip with just ignition but does when running
Not familiar with that horn but sounds like could have significant current draw. Of course you wouldn't see this with just a relay.

Thanks ken. The light is definitely red not orange on standby!! But it is weird that it does not trip when it’s ignition only. Maybe I’ll buy a stebel compressor and give that a try.

Electrical issue Denali soundbomb horn help!

Jag

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DEcosse

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Paul Bryant

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If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!

Jag

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Jag

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DEcosse

If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!

Jag

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DEcosse

If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!

Jag

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