Circuit Wizards please

[Evil Mitch]

Here's a new twist on the old "Rocket won't start" issue.

I went out this morning to ride my 2006 Standard to work. Turn on the key, all lights come on and normal gauge sweep. Hit the starter, nothing. No joy. Lights stay on. The starter switch is just dead.

I think, oh s..t, not the ignition switch again. Can't be, I have the EB relay kit.

Kill switch? nope, it's in run position and I get the gauge sweep.

Clutch switch? mmmm...can't tell at this time. Possible culprit.

Sidestand switch? nope. put bike in neutral and no change.

Gear Position sensor? maybe but very unlikely. would require a bad sidestand switch in this scenario.

So, I slowly turn the bars to the right while punching the starter switch. nothing.

Turn back to the left and at about 15 deg left, the starter kicks in. WTF?? Bike starts right up. A few more degrees to the left and no joy.

This is starting to sound a lot like a bad ignition switch even though I still have gauges. Then I remember, I have the Rivco ignition switch relocation kit so the ignition switch is not on the steering head. Turning the bars wouldn't affect the ignition switch.

Clutch switch is starting to sound more like the problem.

On the left side of the steering head, the gauge wire harness wraps around and disappears under the frame to the connectors under the tank. Where the frame cover mounts, the harness cover rubs and has worn away. I'm beginning to think that the wiring to the clutch switch has broken and it only makes contact with a certain position of the bars. Sound possible?

I'm obviously getting power through the ignition switch, through the headlights and gauges. Are the other safety switches downstream of the gauges prior to powering the starter relay?

I had the same problem with my bike mate not too long ago but i have my wires internal in my bars . when i pulled them out it was a brocken wire it was contacting enough to start intermitantly but always failed at the worst times . now that i fixed her up she has never failed me since

 

[HellFire]

Not to be an ass or a stickler for details, but a short is a short circuit. A short circuit is when a wire is making contact with either another wire or a ground at an intermediate point in the wire. An open is an open circuit which is making no contact whatsoever. It terminates at some point making neither contact with the intended wire/switch or unintended wire/ground.

It's just that we get lazy and call every thing a "short" when it's sometimes not, it's very confusing. Having no starter until the wiring loom is moved would better be described as an intermittent open or broken wire.

Clarifying these terms might help figure out the problem from discussing the symptoms here online. Seems we are talking more about an "open circuit" that is "intermittent" rather than just calling it a "short". When there is a legitimate "short", it usually results in a blown fuse. (or smoke) lol

 

[tdragger]

I finally had an opportunity to check a condition. With the key turned on, I get the gauge sweep and headlights are on. When I hit the starter button, nothing else happens. The lights stay on.

It has to be either the clutch switch or the starter switch. Hopefully I can do a tear-down tonight.

Using the nukeman's suggestions, I'll probe the WR and B wires to track down the problem.

 

[atomsplitter]

I finally had an opportunity to check a condition. With the key turned on, I get the gauge sweep and headlights are on. When I hit the starter button, nothing else happens. The lights stay on.

It has to be either the clutch switch or the starter switch. Hopefully I can do a tear-down tonight.

Using the nukeman's suggestions, I'll probe the WR and B wires to track down the problem.

If the wires and button check out, the relay is toast.

 

[bagman]

I finally had an opportunity to check a condition. With the key turned on, I get the gauge sweep and headlights are on. When I hit the starter button, nothing else happens. The lights stay on.

It has to be either the clutch switch or the starter switch. Hopefully I can do a tear-down tonight.

Using the nukeman's suggestions, I'll probe the WR and B wires to track down the problem.

If the light doesn't go out while you are pressing the starter button then it is one of the following:
1 Starter button
2 Wire to the starter button - White w/ red (Relay to starter button)
3 Wire from the starter button - Black (Ground)
4 Wire to power relay On/Off - Yellow w/ Purple (ECU to Starter Relay)
5 Starter relay

Most likely either 2 or 3. Those two wires with the starter button provide the ground for the relay to turn on and provide power to the starter.

 

[tdragger]

Since moving the handlebars affects the output (side original post), it is likely to be 2 or 3.

Since I have the Rivco risers installed, the wiring loom on the left side of the steering head rubs against the plastic cover. That is likely where a broken wire will be found.

 

[tdragger]

the mystery continues. After dis-assembly of the right side switch housing the starter switch, I discovered that the wires on the back of the switch are both black/red. Not the red/white and black that I expected.

After putting a voltmeter to one of the wires, a 12v reading was found. With all the tugging and pulling on the wires, I'm not sure that I am any closer to finding the source of the problem.

 

[64Herald]

My clutch switch went bad with the same results. try wiggiling the switch when pushing in on it and I have changed the starter relay 2 times already

 

[atomsplitter]

the mystery continues. After dis-assembly of the right side switch housing the starter switch, I discovered that the wires on the back of the switch are both black/red. Not the red/white and black that I expected.

After putting a voltmeter to one of the wires, a 12v reading was found. With all the tugging and pulling on the wires, I'm not sure that I am any closer to finding the source of the problem.

One wire was 12V and the other zip, correct? That means you have voltage at the button, so the button is NOT the problem. When the button is pushed the cross-over relay should knock the lights out and engage the starter. The Engine Control Module has three interlocks, side stand, clutch and gear position. The only reason the relay won't change is either the relay is broke or the solenoid isn't getting power. That could be caused by the interlocks. The sidestand and clutch switches go to ground when closed. You can bypass those with a little engin-uity so that's the next thing to check (assuming the cross-over relay is working). Both of those switches require a gate to close to go to ground. Until the cross-over relay changes state the starter won't engage.

The mystery is why jiggling the bars makes the relay change, so the first one to check is the clutch switch. According to the manual's color code the hot lead is a black/orange wire from the clutch perch. (Let us know what color you find) You can tap that line if you want and connect directly to ground and see if it solves the problem.

 

[tdragger]

Here's a bit of British electrics wisdom.

The wiring harness power to the clutch switch circuit is indeed black/orange and the ground is, of course, black.

Now get this: The power lead (black/orange) changes to a black wire across the harness plug then up to the switch on the handlebar. The ground wire (black) changes to black/red in the handlebar wiring bundle. This is shown only on the full electrics diagram.

My question is can I bypass the clutch switch by splicing the black and black/red wires in the handlebar wiring bundle?