Gearbox

[Paul Bryant]

Right from when I first got this bike (February last year with 40K Miles on it) the gear box in this bike has been an absolute pig to change gears, 1st to 2nd is impossible to change fast, if I go slow and methodical I get a clean change, also 4th to 5th graunches almost every gear change I make.I had it down last year to replace 4th and 5th gears along with the 5th gear selector. I looked closely at all the components, nothing seamed to be wrong, damaged or out of place.
Now it's jumping out of 2nd gear which I would say that the engagement dogs are worn as 4th-5th was previously.
This I see as a result of it not changing cleanly. 4th to 5th is still the same as it ever was so I can see that these two are going to wear the dogs again and need replacement sometime in the future.

Now (in my mind) I'm trying visulize all of the gear change components trying to suss what is causing this craunchy selection of gears.
The darn thing feels like a Bulldozer gearbox.
I wondered if the selector drum itself may not have been machined correctly in the first place ???
When I had the Engine apart there was nothing obviously wrong with any of the (gear change) components, hence me wondering about original machining etc.

I checked with Andy Lauritzen at North County Yamaha, below is our correspondence.


Hi Andy, just today I've felt my 2006 Rocket jumping out of second gear, could you give me price and availability of the list below please, along with the shipping out here to New Zealand. The engine number is COOL-56247114.
Clutch cover gasket
Alternator cover gasket
Output cover gasket
Sump cover gasket
Output shaft 2nd gear, No 16 in picture below.
Dog ring, No13 below.
I probably should price the selector fork that locates in the Dog Ring No13 as well.

I've not yet pulled the engine out/down yet, but it's going to have to happen so am getting ready for it.

Thanks,

Paul.

Hey Paul, here’s the breakdown of your parts:

T1260107 clutch cover gasket 8.45
T1260119 alt. cover gasket 9.36
T1260184 output cover gasket 10.68
T1230002 sump cover gasket 13.15
T1180188 2nd gear and dog ring (comes together) 155.77
T1190660 2nd gear selector fork 74.17

Shipping to you is probably around $50.00 but I’ll know better when Shipping is here (it’s Sunday today, bleh)

Let me know what you want and I’ll get it coming!

Andy

Hi Andy, thanks for your quick response, but why were you working on a Sunday ???
I've not pulled the bike down as yet, but will get back to you as soon as I know exactly what I require.
A questions, Guys on the Rocket Forum have spoken about a 2nd gear update kit, is this applicable to my model ? what is included in this kit ?
Also, the gear box in this bike is an absolute pig to change gears, 1st to 2nd is impossible to change fast, I have to go slow and methodical to get a clean change, also 4th to 5th graunches almost every gear change I make.
When I had it down last year to replace 4th and 5th I looked closely at all the components, nothing seamed to be wrong, damaged or out of place. Another question, would a late model, say 2012 Roadster shifter drum fit this model bike (2006) and what would the price of that be?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,

Paul.

Well, we are open 7 days a week, and every great once in a while I have to work Sunday. Not my favorite, but at least it’s a shorter day!

I haven’t found anything specific on a 2nd gear update, but on the earlier RIII (up to engine number 244279) the 2nd output gear and dog ring come together as a kit. On the later engine numbers, those two parts come separately and are different part numbers. The kit is $155.77 and separately the pieces are $147.54.

The shift drum is kinda the same. Up to engine 212561 takes one drum, and engine 212562 and beyond takes another drum. However, I don’t think my USA engine numbers match up with yours! Triumph doesn’t say what is different, and all the surrounding parts are the same, so it appears either drum would fit, but I’m not certain that it would work. The drum for the later engine numbers is $194.47 and the older one is $222.28.

There’s something for you to ponder! Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Andy

So you see my Engine number (56247114) is way upon what Andy has quoted so I feel I'm past the update Bikes.
Basically my question is what the hell is wrong with this gearbox ? :cry:

Also this is interesting "However, I don’t think my USA engine numbers match up with yours!" Any thoughts on this ?
I rode a Mates Thunderbird Storm recently, now I'd guess that the gears within this are probably not too much different in size etc to the Rocket, this gearbox changed sweet as a nut all the way up the gears and back down.
It makes me feel like just start swapping parts out and see what the result may be :sad:

 

[warp9.9]

Very confusing. I have a 2006 Classic and they did away with the SMTCool and just have a serial number on it. I also have a shift drum complete still in tact in a 07 motor case I think its the only moving parts I have left in the engine besides the balancing shaft, as Bones is running the transmition stuff in his and Todd is running the crank shaft and head on his 07 Of course it also still has the detent arm and springs on it. your welcome to it if you want it. there was nothing wrong withthe engine it only had 11,000 miles on it when I bought it. The rest I will turn in for scrap aluminum I hope they did not change things to much because when mine goes bad I was hoping to put a newer roadster transmition in it ? Its serial number is 3289258

 

[Paul Bryant]

Very confusing. I have a 2006 Classic and they did away with the SMTCool and just have a serial number on it. I also have a shift drum complete still in tact in a 07 motor case I think its the only moving parts I have left in the engine besides the balancing shaft, as Bones is running the transmition stuff in his and Todd is running the crank shaft and head on his 07 Of course it also still has the detent arm and springs on it. your welcome to it if you want it. there was nothing wrong withthe engine it only had 11,000 miles on it when I bought it. The rest I will turn in for scrap aluminum I hope they did not change things to much because when mine goes bad I was hoping to put a newer roadster transmition in it ? Its serial number is 3289258

Thanks Scott, this bike of mine did come in from the USA so don't know about the numbers etc.
As I say I'm scratching for ideas and am probably clutching at straws as well, but there's definitly something wrong with this 'box.
Don't scrap those cases, I could well be interested in them.
For the 70's Brit bikes that I build for I have 5 different "bikes" which really are just Chassis and Engines along with footrest and muffler mounting plates, these I build one off specials on and also check that pipes are correct on. I want to collect up old and broken parts to assemble a Rocket "bike" as well for this very same purpose.

Ruzzel has offered to send me an updatelist that takes all parts up to the '08 model spec, so will look at that and see what I can fathom.

So whats the difference with the Roadster Trans ?

Thanks for your input, I'll beat this thing yet ! :shock:

 

[Gothlander]

Maybe the clutch is dragging Paul, you may have the old style thrust bearing that can be problematic. This can maybe not allow the gears to mesh fully and cause jump outs. A sign that it is dragging is when it clunks when coasting slowly with the clutch in.

 

[Paul Bryant]

Maybe the clutch is dragging Paul, you may have the old style thrust bearing that can be problematic. This can maybe not allow the gears to mesh fully and cause jump outs. A sign that it is dragging is when it clunks when coasting slowly with the clutch in.

Thanks for your input Goth. I have tried playing with the adjustment at the handle bar cos I wondered if that may be the problem (clutch draging)
It does kind of feel as tho'the clutch is not disengaging properly when changing, but I really don't know about that
Next time I'm out on the bike I'll listen/feel for a clunk as you are suggesting.
Do you have any referance's to the new/old style thrust bearing ?

 

[warp9.9]

old style lifterpiece



old style needle roller bering which also uses a thrust washer. If yours is a silver 06 motor I suppose it could be a left over 05 engine or made so late in 05 it was dated and sold as a 06.


I have seen 2006 classics sold as 2007 models even with the 06 sunset red and jet black tins on it. just recentlyon ebay. and you could see the manufacture date was 06 but the vin number 7 denoting a 2007 bike.

Also even if you have the newer cluth components the liftershaft could be worn down which will stop it from fully releasing the clutch even though the free play is right it just won't get enough lift. like the one on the right in the picture below

 

[Paul Bryant]

Scott from memory (this time last year) I think I had the smaller of the two lifter shafts, not sure on that, but it wasn't at all worn. I remember reading your posts regarding this at the time. As for the Radial roller bearing again I'm not sure exactly what I've got in there.
This is an 06 imported from the USA Black engine model bike.
Sooner or later I'll have to pull it all down, I'm nursing it through 2nd at present but that won't last too long.
This is all good suport information so that when I do pull it down I'll be armed with info.

A thought I just had (no it didn't hurt) I might just go adjust the clutch up real tight, no free play, this just to see if the gear change is smoother, when I think about it changing from 4th to 5th I get a graunching that could well be that the clutch is not fully disengaged so therefore still driving the shafts etc. Hmmm ! ullhairout:

 

[Gothlander]

I modified my clutch before the updated version was available. I seen that the bearing could angle it'self because of the large difference between the ID of the bearing and the lifter piece diameter (this is because the pressure plate has a recess for the bearing to locate and if the bearing dropped down would cause problems) . This, I surmised would cause it pull the pressure plate on an angle and cause drag. I machined my setup to take an angle contact ball bearing and have had no problems since then.

 

[Gothlander]

Make sure you are getting the full pull by making sure the adjustment on the lever is not set for short fingers. Leave some play or you will wear your lifter shaft.

 

[ruzzle]

Make sure you are getting the full pull by making sure the adjustment on the lever is not set for short fingers. Leave some play or you will wear your lifter shaft.

Indeed! Getting a full pull is very important..................