My turn with the noises.

[Mitchcpc]

First of all let me say that the below will in no way lesson my love for my Rocket. I have had more fun on this bike in the last year than all the bikes I have owned in the last 30 years put together. I just wanted to share this with you all, the good and the bad. I really believe that with the exception of a few poorly designed or wrongfully installed parts, the rocket engine will far outlast any other current production engine.

So I go to Sturgis and back from Bremerton Washington and put about 3,500 miles on my bike. 07 standard rocket. VIN 316556. No problems, no idle issues, nothing. Except. On the way back, while in West Yellowstone, I start my bike up in the morning, it was pretty cold in the mornings there, about 38 degrees, and as it revs up to about 1,500 RPM, which it always does then settles right down at 800, I hear a tapping noise from the top of the engine. Some would describe it as a rattle. It reminded me of an old Datsun pick up I used to have with solid lifters that would "Float" and rattle when revved up. Anyway, it would only rattle at 1,500 rpm, not above or below, and as soon as it warmed up it went completely away.

From that point on when started cold it did the same thing, and went away a couple of minutes after the engine started.

So I figure it is probably just valve adjustment. I had calculated that as soon as I got home I would have 10K on the bike and need to get it in for my 10K service.

I planned to take it to I-90 Motorsports in Issaquah where I bought the bike, but after checking prices between them and the Lynnwood Cycle Barn that I had heard great things about from Gasket, I found that the labor at I-90 was $600 and at Lynnwood it was $445. So I decided to give Lynnwood Cycle Barn a shot.

Lynnwood Cycle Barn needs two days for this service. I found that driving my bike over on the Kingston/Edmonds ferry and then taking a cab back to the ferry was cheaper than trailering or having somebody ferry over to bring me back. A taxi from the Cycle Barn to the Edmonds ferry dock is $17.00. When I picked it up I just did the reverse. Walked on at Kingston and then taxi to the Cycle Barn. Alex at Cycle Barn set me up with the Taxi service.

So, I dropped my bike off on last Saturday and made several notes for the mechanic to look at.

Engine "rattle" at 1,500 RPM cold.
Front brakes squeak since new.
Front end wobbles at 45 MPH if I take my hands off the bars.

I had planned to just leave it there and pick it up the following Saturday. Bruce called Thursday and said my bike would be ready for pick up on Saturday, however...the rattle noise could not be resolved by the valve adjustments and my engine would need a tear down to investigate and repair, but that I could bring it back in the winter, it was OK to ride until then.

When I picked the bike up I asked for a copy of the mechanics handwritten notes.

The mechanics notes are "Unit does have a rattle in the motor that goes away when hot. Adjusted cam chain tension, top end noise is better than it was. Recommend riding bike and investigate further during winter when not riding, bike will be down for a while when motor comes apart"

I also asked for the before and after valve readings, all of which were in spec.

I asked Bruce to put in writing that this engine noise would be resolved under warranty and that I should continue to ride it at their direction, which he did. I feel that I can trust these guys. He admitted that other Rockets have had this same issue. I also printed out several posts from this forum about the "Upgrade" kit and gave them to Bruce. He had not heard personally about the "Upgrade" kit, but said he would look into it before I brought my bike back. I explained that although this was an inconvenience, I didn't mind so much as long as I didn't have to do this more than once. If they are taking my engine apart, I want all known or suspected weak parts replaced. He assured me that would happen.

And don't forget to ask for the extra two quarts of oil they charge you for but don't use because they only see the 15-50 in gallons. When I asked it was no problem, they brought it right out but sounded like most Rocket owners miss this part.

I also needed a new front tire, and they did resolve the squeaky front brakes. In fact, the brakes are a lot stiffer than when I took it in, they were getting kinda mushy. They gave me free install on the front tire due to the fact I was getting the 10K service. New spark plugs were also a part of the 10K service. All in all parts were $360 including the new front tire and labor was $445. All plus tax of course.

Lynnwood Cycle Barn has my vote for customer service. I felt like a valued customer.

I'll ride it a couple of months then take it back to get the rattle resolved. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Right now I have to go install my cat bypass so Wing and A Prayer doesn't laugh at my cat box when we go on the Oyster run.

 

[Pig9r]

Sounds like the dealer is pretty good. Hopefully all will turn out well.

 

[Sidecar Flip]

A good delaer is worth everything. Interestingly, just as there are good Triumph dealers and less than satisfactory ones, that holds true for other marques as well. I've experienced that with my Kawasaki. There are excellent Kawasaki dealers and dealers who shouldn't have a franchise so it's an across the board thing.

If it's a good dealer, support him by purchasing everything you can from him. Remember, a dealer makes his money on acessories and service, not the initial sale. He has lots of built in overheads so help him stay in business.

 

[TxRIIIRider]

For the front end wobble, also have them check the head stock bearing retaining nut. When I checked mine, both the lock nut and retaining nut were less than hand tight.

I'm sure there's a correct torque specifiction for the retaining nut, but it should be tight enough that the front end does not flop back and forth with the front end off the ground.

As far as the engine "knocK" at about 1500 RPM when cold. I've had that since mine was new. I have 36,000 miles on it now, with no issues. You're right about taking it in to get it checked out, I just never have and it's never caused a problem. I have a two mile ride down my rode before I get to a highway, and basically just don't hang around 1500 RPM during those two miles. Once I get to the highway, she's warmed up and ready to take on the morning traffic! Which she does quite well!..

 

[Sidecar Flip]

This is eaxctly how to set the pre-load....

Gunshots and I just discussed the preload procedure on the phone last night. He set his preload as he had a wobble as well. The procedure for setting the preload is pretty simple, however, you do need some large metric open end wrenches, a torque wrench and some patience. After Eureka Springs, when I get back home, I'm going to completely tear down my front end as the tubes have to be removed and disassembled to replace the seal in the right leg (I'll replace them both). I have a complete set in the shop, got them Thursday.

Of course the front of the motorcycle has to be completely off the ground. No contact with the ground by the front wheel is permissible during this procedure.

1. Slacken the top yoke (upper triple clamp) clamp bolts.

2. Remove the 2 screws securing the upper cover of the handlebar clamp to the lower section.

3. Pivot the instruments forward to reveal the steering stem top nut.

4. Slacken and remove the top nut and washer. Lift and support the handlebar ant top yoke (triple clamp) assembly to gain access to the bearing adjuster nut and locknut.

5. Slacken the locknut and adjuster nut.

6. Adjust the bearing free play as follows:
a. Tighten the adjuster nut to 40Nm.
b. Slacken the adjuster nut fully.
c. Re-tighten the adjuster nut to 6Nm.
d. Loosen the adjuster nut by 90degrees. Note that there will now be free play present.
e. Hold the adjuster nut (lower nut) in that position (It is imperative that it does not move even a slight amount) while tightening the locknut to 40Nm.
Ensure that the adjuster nut does not move as the locknut is tightened.

7. Seat the top yoke assembly (upper triple clamp) in position and replace the top nut. Torque to 65Nm.

8. Check to see that the free play has been eliminated and the steering can be turned from lock to lock without any sign of tightness, re-adjust if necessary.

In a nutshell, here is what happens....

The stem is threaded and there are upper and lower tapered seat roller bearings. The pitch of the threaded stem is a known value as well as the clearance between the mating threads of the adjuster nut and the stem itself. That is called in machine shop terms...'fit'.

When you initially torque the adjuster to 40 Nm, you seat the roller bearings in the races. Then, you back off the adjuster nut fully and tighten it to 6Nm (this is the important step). That re-seats the rollers, removes all freeplay again (double checks it). Then, when you back off the adjuster nut 90 degrees, what happens is you are allowing the exact clearance the thread pitch on the stem has, in other words, slop. That's why it's imperative to only back off the nut 90 degrees and no more. It's a carefully calculated distance on a known constant. When you tighten the locknut to 40Nm, it drives the adjuster nut to the bottom travel of that known distance and very effectively removes all freeplay.

That's why it's so important to make sure the adjuster nut is only backed off 90 degrees and remains immobile while the locknut is torqued on top of it.

On another note...

I'm going to completely pull the headstock on my R3 when I pull the tubes. OEM's tend to put as little grease in the headstock (and other pivot points) as possible so I am going to re-pack the headstock and bearings while I have it down and most likely drill and tap the headstock for 2 alemite fittings (upper and lower) so I can give it a shot every oil change. It won't hurt the seals in the headstock as they are basically just dust seals.

The procedure for setting the headstock bearings on the R3 is a little different than most bikes.

Most bikes use what is referred to as a starting torque to attain correct freeplay. Actually, this procedure is a bit less intensive and achieves the same results.

 

[Gunshots]

Note that there will be noticable freeplay in the front fork before tighting the locking nut. Do it right by the book and it will work. hardest thing is holding the adjusting nut while tighting the lock nut. The nuts are very thin and the only thing I could get to hold it was a pair of needle nose vice-grip pliars you will only have about a 3/16" below the lock nut. It also take a 1 3/16" deep socket to tighten the nuts. It is something you might no fine in everyones tool box (I am sure it metric but the 1 3/16" works fine)

 

[goodfellow]

**** fine post

flip,gunshots;
excellent post. good on ya .....


greg

 

[goodfellow]

For the front end wobble, also have them check the head stock bearing retaining nut. When I checked mine, both the lock nut and retaining nut were less than hand tight.

I'm sure there's a correct torque specifiction for the retaining nut, but it should be tight enough that the front end does not flop back and forth with the front end off the ground.

As far as the engine "knocK" at about 1500 RPM when cold. I've had that since mine was new. I have 36,000 miles on it now, with no issues. You're right about taking it in to get it checked out, I just never have and it's never caused a problem. I have a two mile ride down my rode before I get to a highway, and basically just don't hang around 1500 RPM during those two miles. Once I get to the highway, she's warmed up and ready to take on the morning traffic! Which she does quite well!..

yep,

mine does it also(rattles a tad when cold.). no problems yet though. I'm happy.....


greg

 

[Mitchcpc]

Thanks

Hey, thanks everyone , TxRIIIRider, Gunshots, Flip, goodfellow, Pig9r, for the comments, suggestions, and opinions. This is a great site, I appreciate it.

Mitch