How do you know whats good?

[Markusparkus]

Ok fellas , thinking of going down the re mapping route. Have downloaded TUNE ECU and busy familiarising myself with it before I take the plunge. What I want to know is this, how do you guys determine you have improved things with a new tune? Does the software tell you the engine is running better? Do you go by feel of the bike? Do you check the plugs? Or is putting the bike on a dyno the only way? Interested in your answers.

 

[xhdskip]

markus,
wish I could help you out on this,
but I'm afraid I'm in the same boat.
Apparently I need a REAL SIMPLE tutorial.
Hopefully someone who has more understanding
will lead us both (and others I'm sure)
through this maze...

 

[wizard11]

TE

Hi guys...
If you want to make alterations in fuel or ignition please be careful and save original map...
It is possible to get things better but also the other way, in here we call it assdyno...
What you really need is a dyno and someone who has mapped bikes... thats the only way to get it right. (at least you need to see that it isn't too lean and hear that there is no detonation if you fiddle with ignition)
Takes about 4-16hrs depends what you want...
I've done it once and never want or need to do it again, it took me 6hrs in dyno including alterations to the maps.

 

[T Evans]

I know this sounds a little simple and maybe stupid at the same time. But why would any one try an unproven method of trying to get more performance from your bike? We have all heard of the TuneBoy, TuneEdit and all the other methods out there on the fringes. Most of us here in the states can find somebody with a dyno but for the most part they are only familier with the V-twins. There are a few people that are lucky enough to be around somebody that has a dyno and familier with TB and other Tuner's but most of us as a whole aren't that lucky.
I purchased a TB because I ride a classic and wanted to remove the top speed limiter and I wanted to be able to correct my speedo. If I had it to do over again I would still do it the way I did but if the above mention items were not an issue I would have installed the PCIII and had it dialed in on a tuner and that would be it, done.
Most people purchase a PCIII, plug it in, install the canned tune from the factory and never finish the install by going to a PCIII Dyno Center and have them dial in the tune and set the A/F and balance the fuel across the manifold. I could not beleive how much the PCIII woke my engine up when I first installed it. But after having it dialed in and the A/F ratio set and leaned out at cruising speeds was like night and day difference between the two. I have made these statements before but for those of you who have tried a PCIII and didn't have the best results probabily didn't finish the install by having it put on a computer and dialed in on a dyno.
I know this sounds like a sales pitch for PCIII but its hard to go against what is proven to work and what is out there on the fringes and doesn't have a proven track record as with the PCIII. Its like going to a steak house and ordering chinese, you just don't do it unless you know for dam sure that thier chinese food is to dye for. lol.
We have all heard the old saying " K I S S ", Keep It Simple Stupid. And when messing with something that cost as much as these toys do, I sure don't want to screw it up and I want to get every pony I can out of mine. But hey, this is just my expierence and too each his own.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

Big T

 

[HellFire]

I think T pretty much summed it up, it works - it's proven - it's simple.

 

[dougl]

I second T. PCIII and a good dyno tuneris the most straight forward way of optimizing your fueling. That said, there are good reasons to start with Tuneboy (or TuneECU, which I haven't used).

1) You can correct the speedo.

2) You can set the secondaries open 100% all the time.

3) You can copy the higher gear advanced timing maps into the maps for the lower gears (if you dare).

4) With everything else the way you want it, you can buy a PCIII and have the fuel optimized on a dyno. There's little point in installing a PCIII unless you're going to get it custom mapped.

 

[Macrider]

Pc iii

If I get a PC III and install it on the bike, will I also be able to use a GiPro?
just not sure if they both plug into the ECU or are separate?
Then after both are installed get a dyno done and tuned in and I should be all set. Right?
Thank you DougL for your excellent advice.
Mac

 

[dougl]

If I get a PC III and install it on the bike, will I also be able to use a GiPro?
just not sure if they both plug into the ECU or are separate?
Then after both are installed get a dyno done and tuned in and I should be all set. Right?
Thank you DougL for your excellent advice.
Mac

What do you gain from the GiPro?

 

[HellFire]

That's the combination I use ... PCIII, GiPro, TOR's, Triples and secondary plates removed.
It's all plug and play stuff you can do with minimum experience and tools, probably the least expensive (with the exception of PCIII vs TuneECM) route as well. With those mods done, a good dyno tune by an experienced Power Commander technician will bring it all together with excellent HP and Torque results.

The PCIII allows for fuel trim adjustments to be done by the tuner but doesn't allow for ECM editing on the secondary plates, timing or the 7% power reduction in 1st-3rd gears.
Removing the plates takes care of that issue and the GiPro restores the missing 7% with timing changes.

So to answer your GiPro question ... Yes, they work together very well. And as a bonus you get the gear position indicator. Simply adding a GiPro and removing the secondaries seems to be enough extra power for a lot of guys and they stop there. By doing just those two things, they are getting full power in all gears as well as smooth and instant throttle response without computer or fuel tuning necessary.

You can do everything I just covered with Tuneboy and TuneECM, but it takes more mechanical ability to get it right. It's a longer process to tune with them and very few dyno tuners will work with that system. It's much simpler to tune with a Power Commander module and dyno, takes far less time and is well supported in the industry.
It's also been suggested that using TuneECM along with the PCIII and GiPro works well. It allows for other changes to be made apart from tinkering with fuel/timing. I will be using TuneECM just so I can "look inside". I don't want to make any changes with it, everything is exactly the way I like it, it's reliable and VERY powerful. I couldn't be happier with the current set-up (but cams sound sooooo **** good ).

 

[dougl]

I'm glad your bike runs well. I don't see any advantage adding hardware to manage things you can do better with software.