What tune can i get away with 8psi boost.

flash

.040 Over
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
56
Location
Perth Western Australia
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yamaha prohauler
I have managed to score a used turbo kit for my rocket 3 engine, but before i start installing it i would like to sort out what tuning i require. I have tune ecu capabilities and a bosche 044 external fuel pump already running . Was hoping to just fit a rising rate fpr and utilizing the tune ecu capabilities . I dont plan on lifting the rev limit past 6500 rpm, any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.
 
The stock tunes use manifold pressure for fueling below 30% throttle. This won't work at greater than 1 atm. You can basically eliminate MAP fueling using TuneECU.
 
This is the kit that i scored i have to build by own intake plenum and i am going to run an intercooler at the front. Thanks for the replies it sounds that the tune ecu can give me what i want.
Screenshot_2016-09-25-12-38-28.png
 
Flash you have a few options for tuning, always multiple ways to skin the cat of course. I'm going to say this up front though in my opinion, 8 PSI, on what looks like a turbo similar in size to 16G, is going to REQUIRE larger injectors. You should install a Walbro 642 pump and get a 1:1 referenced FPR. These are a "must buy" for turbo conversions imho, and any kit that doesn't include a 1:1 is questionable right out the gate. Additionally, I highly suggest a "boost by gear" electronic boost controller, something like the turbosmart eboost2, fantastic bit of kit that lets you shape the boost onset curve and set differing boost levels by gear, as well as set differing boost presets, so you can run your "commute" map, say 4 PSI, "play" map say 6 PSI, and "kill" map 8 PSI.

1: Use TuneECU for base fueling. Zero out the L tables completely and the F-L switch table. This will get you simple single table tuning, but, it wont be able to provide enough fuel alone to compensate for 8 PSI. To compliment this, you can install the RRFPR, preferably one with an adjustable rate of gain. To tune this, I would hold the waste gate open at first so you get zero boost. Tune the F-table to get your N/A portions perfect. Once that's done, hook up the waste gate on just the spring pressure, whatever that is, a lot of turbos use springs @ 3-4 lbs stock. Now, this is where it gets tricky because your going to get some part throttle boost with the displacement of the Rocket. You'll have to retune the whole F-Table in TuneECU. At some point, you'll reach a max enrichment value in TuneECU where it wont let you add more fuel, if you're still lean, you will need to increase the rate of gain on the RRFPR, and retune the F-Table again. Rinse and repeat this process until its all setup working properly at your desired boost level.

2: Install a PC-V, AT, and GM 2 bar MAP sensor wired into the AUX input. Connect the speed sensor so you can do "by gear" tuning. With this method you can leave the L and F tables totally alone in TuneECU. Just tune it using the PC-V on the dyno by using RPM/MAP instead of RPM/TPS mode. Ensure you do BY GEAR tuning, you're going to build boost at different RPM and rates in different gears, this is important to get a perfect tune! Start by adding 50% fuel in the 8PSI areas, taper it down to +10% in the onset of boost areas and +5% in the RPM area JUST before boost onset. The 5% will smooth the transition and avoid bucking (common problem with Forced Induction conversions). You want to be working from too rich to too lean, so be generous when starting off, and start on LOW boost. Limit the AT control to like +/- 10% and leave it on at all RPM and all throttle positions over 2%. Ensure your MAP values in PC-V software extend to like 16 PSI, dont stop at 8 PSI in the table, and anything over your target boost level should be dead rich. This is insurance should your diaphragms in the boost controller or waste gate rip and cause an overboost situation. I say this from personal experience, you REALLY don't want to do a pull, and find you hit the motor with 25 PSI instead of the 15 PSI you had it set to, it ends badly lol.

3: Install a standalone. Most will turn away at this point, BUT, for the same amount of money as option 2 you can get a micro-squirt or megasquirt 3, a full standalone that has VASTLY more power than the Keihin ECU does. This is, technologically, the best option, though most won't do it. There is a TON of support for these ECUs online, and they have literally powered everything from remote control vehicles to championship winning race cars. They can adapt to any engine for any purpose, and they are far more flexible than the high dollar MOTEC/AFI etc ECUs.

4: Install some BIG injectors, like 680cc or 720cc injectors. Zero out the L table and F-L switch table. Do all your tuning in TuneECU. You won't need a RRFPR for this method as the injectors are so big TuneECU will have the flexibility to provide the required fuel. The problems with this method are that straight alpha-n, which this is, can sometimes be challenging to tune right and, you have no acceleration enrichment control.

4a: All the same as method 4, but use Tuneboy instead, it has a provision for a 2 or 3 bar map sensor, so you can keep using the L table and get perfect fueling with nothing but the stock ECU!

Hope this helps and gives you some suggestions you haven't already thought of. Good luck with your trike quad, I really had a lot of fun on my last turbo conversion, I went the Megasquirt route, as the platform didn't have anything like Tuneboy available.

Regarding intercoolers, there is a LOT of misinformation out there, people who understand some of the theory but not enough of it. The most important dimensions are forward facing area, the least important is thickness. The more forward 1/2 of the intercooler does 3/4 of the cooling, so by doubling the thickness you can get some more cooling, but if you instead increased forward facing area by double you'd get vastly more cooling power.

Then there is the type of end tanks, the most commonly listed and sold ones are garbage. 1st image is what you usually find for sale, 2nd image is the better type. Second type has a lot less pressure drop and is more efficient at cooling:
images

IntercoolerU-5-002.jpg
 
Last edited:
Flash you have a few options for tuning, always multiple ways to skin the cat of course. I'm going to say this up front though in my opinion, 8 PSI, on what looks like a turbo similar in size to 16G, is going to REQUIRE larger injectors. You should install a Walbro 642 pump and get a 1:1 referenced FPR. These are a "must buy" for turbo conversions imho, and any kit that doesn't include a 1:1 is questionable right out the gate. Additionally, I highly suggest a "boost by gear" electronic boost controller, something like the turbosmart eboost2, fantastic bit of kit that lets you shape the boost onset curve and set differing boost levels by gear, as well as set differing boost presets, so you can run your "commute" map, say 4 PSI, "play" map say 6 PSI, and "kill" map 8 PSI.

1: Use TuneECU for base fueling. Zero out the L tables completely and the F-L switch table. This will get you simple single table tuning, but, it wont be able to provide enough fuel alone to compensate for 8 PSI. To compliment this, you can install the RRFPR, preferably one with an adjustable rate of gain. To tune this, I would hold the waste gate open at first so you get zero boost. Tune the F-table to get your N/A portions perfect. Once that's done, hook up the waste gate on just the spring pressure, whatever that is, a lot of turbos use springs @ 3-4 lbs stock. Now, this is where it gets tricky because your going to get some part throttle boost with the displacement of the Rocket. You'll have to retune the whole F-Table in TuneECU. At some point, you'll reach a max enrichment value in TuneECU where it wont let you add more fuel, if you're still lean, you will need to increase the rate of gain on the RRFPR, and retune the F-Table again. Rinse and repeat this process until its all setup working properly at your desired boost level.

2: Install a PC-V, AT, and GM 2 bar MAP sensor wired into the AUX input. Connect the speed sensor so you can do "by gear" tuning. With this method you can leave the L and F tables totally alone in TuneECU. Just tune it using the PC-V on the dyno by using RPM/MAP instead of RPM/TPS mode. Ensure you do BY GEAR tuning, you're going to build boost at different RPM and rates in different gears, this is important to get a perfect tune! Start by adding 50% fuel in the 8PSI areas, taper it down to +10% in the onset of boost areas and +5% in the RPM area JUST before boost onset. The 5% will smooth the transition and avoid bucking (common problem with Forced Induction conversions). You want to be working from too rich to too lean, so be generous when starting off, and start on LOW boost. Limit the AT control to like +/- 10% and leave it on at all RPM and all throttle positions over 2%. Ensure your MAP values in PC-V software extend to like 16 PSI, dont stop at 8 PSI in the table, and anything over your target boost level should be dead rich. This is insurance should your diaphragms in the boost controller or waste gate rip and cause an overboost situation. I say this from personal experience, you REALLY don't want to do a pull, and find you hit the motor with 25 PSI instead of the 15 PSI you had it set to, it ends badly lol.

3: Install a standalone. Most will turn away at this point, BUT, for the same amount of money as option 2 you can get a micro-squirt or megasquirt 3, a full standalone that has VASTLY more power than the Keihin ECU does. This is, technologically, the best option, though most won't do it. There is a TON of support for these ECUs online, and they have literally powered everything from remote control vehicles to championship winning race cars. They can adapt to any engine for any purpose, and they are far more flexible than the high dollar MOTEC/AFI etc ECUs.

4: Install some BIG injectors, like 680cc or 720cc injectors. Zero out the L table and F-L switch table. Do all your tuning in TuneECU. You won't need a RRFPR for this method as the injectors are so big TuneECU will have the flexibility to provide the required fuel. The problems with this method are that straight alpha-n, which this is, can sometimes be challenging to tune right and, you have no acceleration enrichment control.

4a: All the same as method 4, but use Tuneboy instead, it has a provision for a 2 or 3 bar map sensor, so you can keep using the L table and get perfect fueling with nothing but the stock ECU!

Hope this helps and gives you some suggestions you haven't already thought of. Good luck with your trike quad, I really had a lot of fun on my last turbo conversion, I went the Megasquirt route, as the platform didn't have anything like Tuneboy available.

Regarding intercoolers, there is a LOT of misinformation out there, people who understand some of the theory but not enough of it. The most important dimensions are forward facing area, the least important is thickness. The more forward 1/2 of the intercooler does 3/4 of the cooling, so by doubling the thickness you can get some more cooling, but if you instead increased forward facing area by double you'd get vastly more cooling power.

Then there is the type of end tanks, the most commonly listed and sold ones are garbage. 1st image is what you usually find for sale, 2nd image is the better type. Second type has a lot less pressure drop and is more efficient at cooling:
images

IntercoolerU-5-002.jpg
Wow I didnt expect that reply, thankyou very much for all that information its obvious I need to learn a lot more about tuning. I have fitted a supercharger running 6psi boost to my 4lt lexus v8 ute and buggy and got away with just adding a rising rate fpr leaving the stock ecu to take care of tuning . I guess turbo application on these motors are a bit more involved sounds like a great challenge in front of me thanks again for the information.
 
Superchargers are MUCH easier to tune as they are perfectly linear (centrifugal) or constant pressure (roots), either version makes the amount of fuel required very easy to tune for compared to a turbo setup. The complexity comes in the fact that a turbo can or can not make boost at nearly any RPM depending on throttle position.

All that said, an RRFPR on a quad at low boost... hell why not try it at 3-4 psi, i might just work beautifully :p
 
Wow I didnt expect that reply, thankyou very much for all that information its obvious I need to learn a lot more about tuning. I have fitted a supercharger running 6psi boost to my 4lt lexus v8 ute and buggy and got away with just adding a rising rate fpr leaving the stock ecu to take care of tuning . I guess turbo application on these motors are a bit more involved sounds like a great challenge in front of me thanks again for the information.


:eek::eek::roll::roll::roll::roll:

In the few years I have been here I have learned one thing for sure and for certain. When you ask the guru's for tech advice you might want to wrap some duct tape around your head. It won't keep your head from exploding, but you will still have all the pieces after it does.:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the input what ever i end up doing i will set up a wideband o2 sensor and gauge to keep an eye on the afrs . The bike has plenty of go I came second at the dirt drags only to be beaten a bike length away by a 1000 cc r1 quad on nos . A few extra ponies and i would have smoked it.
 
Thanks for the input what ever i end up doing i will set up a wideband o2 sensor and gauge to keep an eye on the afrs . The bike has plenty of go I came second at the dirt drags only to be beaten a bike length away by a 1000 cc r1 quad on nos . A few extra ponies and i would have smoked it.
I know I'm off topic, but are you saying that your R3 is set up for dirt drags? We need pictures, and hopefully a video. :D
 
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