What is a 12min tune?

[HellFire]

I see references to the 12min tune but I don't know what it is. Are you talking about removing the secondaries or is there more to it than that?

 

[tdragger]

The ECU "learns" as it goes and stores "adaptives" that it uses to fine tune its performance with a particular Rocket. From what I understand a 12 min tune is where you can have the ECU flush the adaptives and start re-learning.

You accomplish this by starting your Rocket making sure that you do not touch the throttle. Let it idle until the radiator fan comes on. Let it idle another 12 minutes and the ECU will reset.

Some have said that your Rocket will run a little rough following the reset since the ECU is re-learning.

I hope that helps.

 

[Punkindave]

The ECU "learns" as it goes and stores "adaptives" that it uses to fine tune its performance with a particular Rocket. From what I understand a 12 min tune is where you can have the ECU flush the adaptives and start re-learning.

You accomplish this by starting your Rocket making sure that you do not touch the throttle. Let it idle until the radiator fan comes on. Let it idle another 12 minutes and the ECU will reset.

Some have said that your Rocket will run a little rough following the reset since the ECU is re-learning.

I hope that helps.

Ok, if this is the case how long does it take to "relearn" once the adaptives are flushed by a tuneboy rest of the adaptives?? What adaptives are in there?? O2 is the only thing I can think of, anybody know for sure what the others are?

 

[Pig9r]

I believe it is solely for fuel trims. However, it is only in the areas where the ECU is in closed loop or on the a/f map in tuneboy where the a/f ratio is 14.57 and greater.

My understanding is that it constantly relearns however, by resetting the adaptives after say making an intake or exhaust change, the old adaptives will not be present so it starts with a blank slate.

Other sensors such as the air temp and ambient pressure sensors also influence fueling.

 

[Punkindave]

I believe it is solely for fuel trims. However, it is only in the areas where the ECU is in closed loop or on the a/f map in tuneboy where the a/f ratio is 14.57 and greater.

My understanding is that it constantly relearns however, by resetting the adaptives after say making an intake or exhaust change, the old adaptives will not be present so it starts with a blank slate.

Other sensors such as the air temp and ambient pressure sensors also influence fueling.

Ok, so basically if you've eliminated the O2 sensor and are never in closed loop there's no "re-learning" or benefit from flushing the adaptives right?..

 

[Pig9r]

That is correct. So if you load a custom mapped tuneboy tune and don't disable the O2 or use an O2 bypass, in the throttle positions and RPM ranges on the A/F map where it is closed loop it will trim them back to 14.57.

You can also reset the adaptives in Tuneboy just as the Triumph service tool does.

 

[GPMAZ]

OK, I have a question regarding the O2 sensor and Tuneboy. What is the advantage of removing/disabling the O2 sensor. From what I understand, it only has an effect in closed loop conditions, that being partial throttle, cruising type situations. Since the bike will run in open loop during acceleration and assuming closed loop cruising situations would result in better gas mileage, why is that a not a good thing.

I'm sure I'm missing something since so many remove/disable the O2 sensor. I guess I'm just a slow learner.

 

[Pig9r]

Well essentialy by remaining in closed loop, you are trimming out the areas in the fuel map that you changed. Kind of defeats the purpose of a custom tune. For example if you need a richer fuel mixture because your intake or exhaust is modified then the O2 sensor will lean those areas back out. I found that on a typical ride I spent 80% to 90% of the ride in closed loop areas of the fuel map. So the bike will be running lean for a large portion of the time you ride.

I had a problem with decel popping or afterfiring. I added fuel to specific areas and eliminated the popping based on this information Link Removed However after time the popping would return. If I reloaded the tune and reset the adaptions, it would go away. So then I removed the O2 sensor and fitted a dynojet O2 bypass. Problem solved, it didn't return. Shortly thereafter Wayne at Tuneboy added the O2 sensor disable function. Someone reported that the ECU still wouldn't go completely out of closed loop though, even after disabling it in Tuneboy, only the bypass was 100%. I can't verify that, only that with the bypass fitted I don't have any problems.

So if you want ideal fuel economy and EPA compliance, keep your bike stock and don't mess with the mapping. But that's not any fun.

 

[Sidecar Flip]

....the key is EPA compliant. I have no doubt (and I believe Pigger will agree with me) that in the future, likely the near future, EPA emission compliance will be more closely monitored and regulated. It's in the cards as far as Obama and all the tree huggers are concerned.

I suspect that in the foreseeable future, there will be roadside compliance checks just like the Department of Transportation checks heavy trucks for emission compliance....you'll get checked as well and if you aren't in compliance, well, coluld be expensive or disruptive depending on how the laws and ordinaces get written.

Like the old saying goes......If you want too keep a woody all night.....don't screw with it.

 

[GPMAZ]

Well essentialy by remaining in closed loop, you are trimming out the areas in the fuel map that you changed. Kind of defeats the purpose of a custom tune. For example if you need a richer fuel mixture because your intake or exhaust is modified then the O2 sensor will lean those areas back out. I found that on a typical ride I spent 80% to 90% of the ride in closed loop areas of the fuel map. So the bike will be running lean for a large portion of the time you ride.

OK, that makes sense. My thinking is that since the bike was designed to run at 14.57:1 that regardless of the intake/exhaust changes letting the O2 sensor hit that target during cruise mode shouldn't harm the engine. And given that there's no performance gains at high gear, steady running, minimal throttle openings adding fuel under those conditions would only cause the bike to burn more fuel. The only gain I could see is that the engine would probably run a bit cooler. I understand that the added fuel is needed under acceleration conditions. My Scangauge confirms what you say about 80-90% closed loop running. But, as soon as I crack the throttle it goes into open loop, and adds the fuel per the modified tables to compensate for the intake/exhaust.

When I did a dyno run I only hit extreme lean conditions at higher RPMS under full throttle. Tweaking the fuel tables fixed that problem. Also, I don't seem to have any of the deceleration fueling issues that many have encountered. Or maybe my hearing has just deteriorated to the point that its inaudible to me.

I wouldn't have a problem installing the O2 eliminator and changing the tune accordingly. I just don't see a real benefit. Then again, I may just be further proving how little I really understand about the whole topic.