What Causes Key Switch Failure?

[dobro]

I have a 2011 R3T and it looks like I'm having a key switch failure for the second time in 6 months (first time it happened I replaced the ignition). (1) What would be the LIKELY causes for this repeated failure on a 2011 Touring? (2) Can the key switch be replaced without replacing the ignition? Thanks.

 

[DEcosse]

I remember your original post and still don't believe your problem is an actual switch problem (incidentally if you still have the original one I'd love to take a look at it and do an FA examination of it for you)
Even one failure would be uncommon on a 'T' and a second more likely indicates that is not the 'real' issue here.
I think you have another issue beyond the switch itself, possibly even the connector on the main harness (see this post - No electrics)

(2) Can the key switch be replaced without replacing the ignition?

I'm not following - What do you mean by "the ignition"

 

[dobro]

I remember your original post and still don't believe your problem is an actual switch problem (incidentally if you still have the original one I'd love to take a look at it and do an FA examination of it for you)
Even one failure would be uncommon on a 'T' and a second more likely indicates that is not the 'real' issue here.
I think you have another issue beyond the switch itself, possibly even the connector on the main harness (see this post - No electrics)



I'm not following - What do you mean by "the ignition"

Thanks, Decosse. I have the old ignition and I'd like to send it to you. I took my bike to a mechanic after our most recent correspondence and he checked the harness and male/female connectors, #2 fuse socket and fuse, battery, and checked to be sure that harness was not restricted, and he took an ohm reading from fuse #2 to the female connector. All ok. He did not disassemble the key switch. Today nothing lit up nor did the pump prime--only sign of life was the horn and brake lights. I charged the battery last night though I don't think it needed it--just wanted to be sure it would be ready for today b/c I haven't rode it in a week. Today it lit up when several attempts though I did nothing except turn the key again.

 

[DEcosse]

... Today nothing lit up nor did the pump prime--only sign of life was the horn and brake lights ....

So that confirms that it is the main input to the key-switch that is not completing the circuit through the ignition and headlight circuits - the brake & turns are on separate pole through the switch which explains why that works.
And cannot be on the output side of the switch, since multiple poles are being affected; so confirms you are losing power at the input of the switch plate.
That puts the problem at Fuse 2, the key-switch connector wires/terminals (on either male or female) or the input wire at the key-switch contact plate itself.
When you get a 'repeat' failure it is either a high probability failure item (the key-switch on the T I would not consider this to be compared to the Classic/Std) or it is something else that was masked temporarily.
Since you did appear to get some temporary relief, when installing a new key-switch (or maybe just the physical act of disconnecting and reconnecting) it puts the connector set as a high-level suspect - and see the pics of that other one to show how that can be an issue)

Here's a potential for what could be a low-cost easy-execute solution or at worst a valuable aid in the problem diagnostic:

Connect a fused wire from the battery positive directly to the White wire of the Key-Switch, just beyond the key-switch connector on the key-switch side - a PosiTap connection will make this an easy connection that is minimally invasive if you decide it is temporary for testing.
That will bypass Fuse 2, its socket, the White/Blue wire and the terminal on each side of the White/Blue to White connection in the key-switch connector.
If all is then good, it says problem is in that defined 'bypass' region; if it is not resolved, then yes, that would also confirm problem to be in the switch itself.
If that connection does fix it, if you want further diagnostic using this aid, you could then switch the PosiTap to the White/Blue wire on main harness side of the connector set - if it then fails, problem is your connector - if not, puts you back at the Fuse Panel.

If you need me to, I could make that bypass link up for you with a quality Fuse Holder (MetriPack 630) and battery lug and PosiTap

If you want to source yourself see here - Order Online- Discounts and scroll down to item ZRTL-643-6 ; 12-18ga 6-piece, $8.95 shipped
(cheaper to buy directly from PosiTap with free shipping than to buy on-line from vendor or EBay)

 

[dobro]

So that confirms that it is the main input to the key-switch that is not completing the circuit through the ignition and headlight circuits - the brake & turns are on separate pole through the switch which explains why that works.
And cannot be on the output side of the switch, since multiple poles are being affected; so confirms you are losing power at the input of the switch plate.
That puts the problem at Fuse 2, the key-switch connector wires/terminals (on either male or female) or the input wire at the key-switch contact plate itself.
When you get a 'repeat' failure it is either a high probability failure item (the key-switch on the T I would not consider this to be compared to the Classic/Std) or it is something else that was masked temporarily.
Since you did appear to get some temporary relief, when installing a new key-switch (or maybe just the physical act of disconnecting and reconnecting) it puts the connector set as a high-level suspect - and see the pics of that other one to show how that can be an issue)

Here's a potential for what could be a low-cost easy-execute solution or at worst a valuable aid in the problem diagnostic:

Connect a fused wire from the battery positive directly to the White wire of the Key-Switch, just beyond the key-switch connector on the key-switch side - a PosiTap connection will make this an easy connection that is minimally invasive if you decide it is temporary for testing.
That will bypass Fuse 2, its socket, the White/Blue wire and the terminal on each side of the White/Blue to White connection in the key-switch connector.
If all is then good, it says problem is in that defined 'bypass' region; if it is not resolved, then yes, that would also confirm problem to be in the switch itself.
If that connection does fix it, if you want further diagnostic using this aid, you could then switch the PosiTap to the White/Blue wire on main harness side of the connector set - if it then fails, problem is your connector - if not, puts you back at the Fuse Panel.

If you need me to, I could make that bypass link up for you with a quality Fuse Holder (MetriPack 630) and battery lug and PosiTap

If you want to source yourself see here - Order Online- Discounts and scroll down to item ZRTL-643-6 ; 12-18ga 6-piece, $8.95 shipped
(cheaper to buy directly from PosiTap with free shipping than to buy on-line from vendor or EBay)

 

[dobro]

Thank you, DeCosse.

Since I replaced the ignition 6 months ago (and to my mechanic's eye the old one appeared to be completely normal after removing and inspecting it), which also included the male connector and wiring to it, is there any defect in a different part that could damage that recently replaced ignition-connector-wiring? Am I correct in assuming that it's extremely unlikely that the newly replaced ignition-connector-wiring itself has failed?

In view of testing the ohms from fuse socket #2 to the connector, which yielded a normal result, is it extremely unlikely that the problem is there? Is there any other test with a voltmeter that can definitvely rule out the socket to the female connector?

Could it be a defective fuse that appears to be normal but is not?

My mechanic told me when he did the testing a few weeks ago that he thinks if it failed again it would be the ignition or "the dash". Could it be "the dash"?

Is there a more likely suspect than the female connector itself?

Thanks for bearing with my uninformed questions.

 

[DEcosse]

My mechanic told me when he did the testing a few weeks ago that he thinks if it failed again it would be the ignition or "the dash". Could it be "the dash"?

No

Is there a more likely suspect than the female connector itself?

I can't answer that without seeing things for myself - and I'm not absolutely ruling out the switch itself, just recognizing it is not common on this model, twice let alone once, for me points to another influencer

If you install the bypass it will categorically help define where the issue resides.

 

[dobro]

No


I can't answer that without seeing things for myself - and I'm not absolutely ruling out the switch itself, just recognizing it is not common on this model, twice let alone once, for me points to another influencer

If you install the bypass it will categorically help define where the issue resides.

DeCosse, I finally have been able to check the fuses in the manner you suggested while the bike is dead. Today, I used a multimeter on both sides of each fuse while the bike was dead. With the key OFF fuses 1-2-3-4-6-7 were +12 and reading the same on both sides of the fuses but fuse 5 showed ZERO on both sides of the fuse. With the key turned ON (but the bike still dead) fuses 5 and 9 were both ZERO on both sides of the fuse (and fuse 2 was still reading good on both sides with the key on).

What are the diagnoses and probabilities of each? Thanks very much.

 

[DEcosse]

Fuses 5 & 9 will correctly have no voltage with key off
With Key-on, those should be powered

Since you have no voltage on 5 or 9, it confirms that you have no current flow between Fuse 2 & the White/Blue wire Contact Pad of the switch;
the problem most likely* resides in either the switch or the terminal connection at either side of the switch connector.
*You cannot rule out Fuse 2 output terminal contact - reading both sides of the fuse is not absolutely conclusive that the output terminal has solid connection; however I would suggest this is probably the most unlikely source and problem resides in one of the two areas indicated above.

Do the bypass I suggested - it will definitively tell you whether problem is through the connector or at the switch itself.

 

[dobro]

Fuses 5 & 9 will correctly have no voltage with key off
With Key-on, those should be powered

Since you have no voltage on 5 or 9, it confirms that you have no current flow between Fuse 2 & the White/Blue wire Contact Pad of the switch;
the problem most likely* resides in either the switch or the terminal connection at either side of the switch connector.
*You cannot rule out Fuse 2 output terminal contact - reading both sides of the fuse is not absolutely conclusive that the output terminal has solid connection; however I would suggest this is probably the most unlikely source and problem resides in one of the two areas indicated above.

Do the bypass I suggested - it will definitively tell you whether problem is through the connector or at the switch itself.

Thank you. Now that the bike is "dead" will it help to do the test you suggested several months ago of using needle nosed pliers to bridge fuse 2 and 5 with the key on? If so, I don't have insulated pliers so can I cut a section from a household extension cord and use that for the bridge?