Valve clearance check

[Mad Dog]

I developed a cam cover gasket leak and decided yesterday was the day to take it apart. Figured I would check valve clearances while I was in there. I spent a couple of hours fiddling with it checking and rechecking until I duplicated previous results. I was careful to align each cam lobe directly over center of the bucket and made the feeler gauge as snug as I judged was possible without compressing the spring. Here is what I got:

I’m not a mechanic or a machinist, I don’t use a feeler gauge frequently, and know enough to know it’s a skill I don’t have, so like I said I went slow and repeated the process until I got consistent results. Unless I misjudged and did compress the springs trying to get a snug fit, I’ve got around 50% more clearance than Triumph specs.
I really am not wanting to pull the cams. I’ve read about @Rocket Scientist & @Bedifferent making tools to compress the springs and change shims, haven’t spotted anything on the tools recently, what’s the latest, are they still considered a viable alternative?
I also found this video of a guy working on a Yamaha who stuck a zip tie in the spark plug hole and worked it in an open valve to hold the bucket down while he rotated the cam into the closed position, skip to 12:20 for the pertinent part Zip tie method
@Speedy @warp9.9 @R-III-R Turbo @Claviger @Idaho Red Rocket 3 anybody else have some input?
I’ve got a 4 day run coming up in 2 weeks and RAA west in September, I’m inclined to not put it back together until it’s corrected, but don’t have the time tools or parts to get it done in 2 weeks, how far can I push this (if any) and exactly what damage am I risking?

 

[atomsplitter]

It's my understanding the feeler gauge should have some resistance when slid between cam and bucket shim. The amount of resistance should allow you to move it back and forth without binding. The clearance check is necessary because valve seats wear and the clearance gap CLOSES between lobe and shim. If your clearance is greater than the specification band you're fine, the seats haven't worn significantly. If the clearance is less than required, then the shim has to be removed and a THINNER shim installed. Shim thickness is stamped on the shim. If you think you need thicker shims you haven't done it right. Put on a new valve cover gasket and button it up, you're fine.
The tool to depress the bucket is a T bar with bolt 2 holes that align with the valve cover bolt holes and the tit on the bar engages the bucket lip. When you bolt it down it compresses the bucket enough to allow the shim to be removed WITHOUT pulling the cam off. You'll find the bucket has a slot cut into it to allow a screwdriver to dislodge the shim. if it's like every other shim over bucket system I've ever seen.
One other note: I had my valve check done at 40K miles and there was almost no wear, so unless you have a really high mileage example with few oil changes or routinely hammer the piss out of the throttle the odds are low you need to replace shims. Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[Mad Dog]

This is what Rob set mine at

OMG Kevin he set them upside down!
Seriously though, that illustrates part of my question how far out of spec’s is an immediate problem and what are the consequences. Here is what Triumph says-

If Rob set you up like that it wasn’t an accident, and I think less clearance is more dangerous than too much, I have read that as parts wear the clearance becomes less. I suspect less clearance translates to an earlier valve opening, and better performance, right up to the point where the valves don’t close all the way. What I don’t know is what happens with excess clearance besides the obvious later opening.
As a side note I have also been told the cam cover bolts should be re torqued after an interval, I didn’t catch that, when I tore mine down yesterday they were literally finger tight. Might be worth a check before long on your bike.

 

[Kevin frazier]

OMG Kevin he set them upside down!
Seriously though, that illustrates part of my question how far out of spec’s is an immediate problem and what are the consequences. Here is what Triumph says-

If Rob set you up like that it wasn’t an accident, and I think less clearance is more dangerous than too much, I have read that as parts wear the clearance becomes less. I suspect less clearance translates to an earlier valve opening, and better performance, right up to the point where the valves don’t close all the way. What I don’t know is what happens with excess clearance besides the obvious later opening.
As a side note I have also been told the cam cover bolts should be re torqued after an interval, I didn’t catch that, when I tore mine down yesterday they were literally finger tight. Might be worth a check before long on your bike.

Mine were changed to shim under bucket im sorry disregard that i erased but not before you saw it, oops

 

[Kevin frazier]

Mine were changed to shim under bucket im sorry disregard that i erased but not before you saw it, oops

Definitely have checked the cam cover bolts, did you go ahead and change washers theyre fancy and they get crushed

 

[Mad Dog]

Definitely have checked the cam cover bolts, did you go ahead and change washers theyre fancy and they get crushed

I’ve got them on hand, haven’t put it back together yet..was consider re using the old gasket after cleaning it up but those washers are crushed all to he11.

 

[Kevin frazier]

I’ve got them on hand, haven’t put it back together yet..was consider re using the old gasket after cleaning it up but those washers are crushed all to he11.

Yeah hermys has them in stock when i ordered mine

 

[Joesmoe]

FWIW, valve cover gaskets have been problematic on these bikes. There are several folks (at least) with older bikes that are still using the same gasket even after multiple remove and refit. I'm doing something wrong, as I went through three new ones, and still did not completely stop the leaks, only slowed it down.

 

[warp9.9]

OMG Kevin he set them upside down!
Seriously though, that illustrates part of my question how far out of spec’s is an immediate problem and what are the consequences. Here is what Triumph says-

If Rob set you up like that it wasn’t an accident, and I think less clearance is more dangerous than too much, I have read that as parts wear the clearance becomes less. I suspect less clearance translates to an earlier valve opening, and better performance, right up to the point where the valves don’t close all the way. What I don’t know is what happens with excess clearance besides the obvious later opening.
As a side note I have also been told the cam cover bolts should be re torqued after an interval, I didn’t catch that, when I tore mine down yesterday they were literally finger tight. Might be worth a check before long on your bike.

I want to call to your attention that it looks like Robs clearances were written in english standard units non metric. Where as mad dogs are listed in metric as well as the manual. That being said you have some with almost twice the clearnce on the exhaust side. Considering the clearance grows smaller as the engine wheres I'd be checking yours again to make sure. The key is to realize the manual has it listed as a allowance intake clearance or slop is between .10 mm and .15mm. Think of it this way the minimum gap (clearance) is .10mm and the maximum gap (clearance) is .15mm . That being said the minimum and the maximum clearances for the exhaust is between .15mm and .20mm . Think of it as allowance for variations only the book is listing the ball field you have to play in. If your in between the two goal post your good. As for timing and zip ties thats crazy Paul can just send you the timing tool and when your done just send it back.

So it does seem weird the your exhaust have such a big gap especially as the gap gets smaller as the engine wears not bigger. So rather then scaring you I say you need to check them again just to be safe . If you do not have metric feeler gauges thats ok everything can be converted to inches if thats what you have. Anyway I hope this is not scarring you. Lobes pointed up to the sky for checking clearances. And there is only a little heal area on the cam lobe to check.

 

[Gerald]

I want to call to your attention that it looks like Robs clearances were written in english standard units non metric. Where as mad dogs are listed in metric as well as the manual. That being said you have some with almost twice the clearnce on the exhaust side. Considering the clearance grows smaller as the engine wheres I'd be checking yours again to make sure. The key is to realize the manual has it listed as a allowance intake clearance or slop is between .10 mm and .15mm. Think of it this way the minimum gap (clearance) is .10mm and the maximum gap (clearance) is .15mm . That being said the minimum and the maximum clearances for the exhaust is between .15mm and .20mm . Think of it as allowance for variations only the book is listing the ball field you have to play in. If your in between the two goal post your good. As for timing and zip ties thats crazy Paul can just send you the timing tool and when your done just send it back.

So it does seem weird the your exhaust have such a big gap especially as the gap gets smaller as the engine wears not bigger. So rather then scaring you I say you need to check them again just to be safe . If you do not have metric feeler gauges thats ok everything can be converted to inches if thats what you have. Anyway I hope this is not scarring you. Lobes pointed up to the sky for checking clearances. And there is only a little heal area on the cam lobe to check.

I believe valve settings are .005 for intakes and .007 for exhausts. Use correct size feeler gauge and one .002 thicker to make a go / no go check. Good luck