TuneBoy Power Commander PC3 emulation differences

[warp9.9]

TuneBoy Power Commander PC3 differences

OK guys I got this from Walt, AKA Hombre originally posted on the R3POWER site that is dedicated to Extracting Maximum Horse Power from the ROCKET.
Walt said to post it on all Rocket Public Forums. This is not a **** stirring session nor am I posting this to start any off colored words about anyone. It is my opinion that this is information all Captains would want to know before they spend their hard earned money on modifications and dyno runs.
I for one will say Thanks Walt!!!!

Below is his post I only made a couple changes which my computer said grammatically were wrong. I of course am just a High school dropout and English was my worst classe. So I do not argue with my computer!

"First off let me state that I'm not trying to get anyone to buy a PC3, but discovery of this might make TuneBoy users rethink loading PC3 dyno tune fuel trim via TuneBoy, and removing the PC3.

When I loaded Todd Nelson's PC3 fuel trim into his tune via TuneBoy, I quickly glanced at the numbers, and they seemed to match, so we loaded the tune and removed the PC3. I suggested that Jerry do another dyno pull just to make sure everything was correct.

Lo and behold, the RWHP dropped by 10, which is a lot! Scratching my head, I carefully studied the fuel trim numbers that TuneBoy imported from the PC3 dyno tune, and while they are close, they ARE NOT exactly the same. This would cause the loss of HP.

I suspect that no one has actually studied their trim numbers or done a second pull after loading fuel trim numbers from a PC3 tune via TuneBoy. Personally, I have kept the PC3 on my bike for the accelerator pump feature. We have discovered that importing fuel trim from a PC3 to TuneBoy is NOT EXACT! This will be bad news for all the guys that borrowed Brian's PC3 for a dyno tune. They no longer actually have the exact fuel trim or the HP/TQ they thought they had, and paid for in their PC3 dyno tune!

My suggestion: buy your own PC3 (or soon PC5) and use it. Please feel free to pass this knowledge on to the "public" R3 forums... but tell 'em you read it here first. "

 

[travelguy]

i agree with walt.. i have tb and pc111,soon hopefully a pc5.happydays , at times i have run an emulation tune and found the bike really just wasnt the same.. i have always thought that the problem with the tb emulation is that it is written in a certain type of computer language and the pc111 in another.. i believe that like spanish to english , yes, there is a translation but the true meaning doesnt always cross over.. good on walt for noticing the difference and letting us know.

 

[travelguy]

i would add that tb is a good diagnostic tool.. but i think you will find that bike racers, even factroy teams w/ un limited budgets run pc111's.

 

[dougl]

i would add that tb is a good diagnostic tool.. but i think you will find that bike racers, even factroy teams w/ un limited budgets run pc111's.

The suggestion seems reasonable for fuel trim. If you're serious about dyno tuning, the cost of a PCIII isn't a big deal. Ignition tables are a different story - thus far, Tuneboy is the only way to adjust them. Since the PCIII and tuneboy trim tables have different numbers of cells, some extrapolation is necessary - but it doesn't seem like this could cause serious errors. Maybe Tuneboy just doesn't work right.

 

[Pig9r]

The numbers aren't the same because there are more cells in the tuneboy fuel trim table (640 vs 234 in the PCIII map) so they are averaged. If the cells in PCIII go from 36 to 30, then in Tuneboy they go 36, 34, 32, 30. That is why they are different.

The example given is confusing. Is that the same bike on the same dyno? One run with PCIII connected then subsequent run with it disconnected and PCIII imported into Tuneboy. I have done just that and have not experienced a noticeable difference. Did the bike have an O2 bypass on or just have it turned off via Tuneboy with O2 sensor still in place?

Also emulating a PCIII in Tuneboy is different than importing a .djm fuel map into Tuneboy.

I would say email Tuneboy for further info, but that would likely go unanswered.

 

[xhdskip]

I pulled my PC3 off.
Bike was running lean so I thought a PC 3 would richen the mixture.
I later pulled the exhaust off and looked.
Back cylinder was lean, middle one was right and the front one was Rich.
Ordered a tune boy so I can adjust the individual cylinder fuel maps, I hope.
Is this possible with the tune boy, or am I just SOL.

 

[warp9.9]

The example given is confusing. Is that the same bike on the same dyno? One run with PCIII connected then subsequent run with it disconnected and PCIII imported into Tuneboy. I have done just that and have not experienced a noticeable difference. Did the bike have an O2 bypass on or just have it turned off via Tuneboy with O2 sensor still in place?
I would say email Tuneboy for further info, but that would likely go unanswered.

Most likely the programs are just not using the same extrapolating formulas.
As for the O2 sensor I would say it was not hooked up as the blower set up has you disconnect it.
Nev noticed it also but said you can get the same results with the tuneboy it just take patients in fact when he took the time he ended up with .7 more horse power useing tuneboy. It boils down to patients.
Or as Sam says PC5 hopfully soon

 

[Pig9r]

So was it the same bike on the same dyno??

Sam volunteered to take his bike to Reno to let Dynojet have a go at it.

 

[Pig9r]

Todd pm'd me, he had 240rwhp with the PCIII and 230rwhp without. That is about a 4% difference, and probably why on my NA Rocket I didn't not see any noticeable difference on the dyno.

So if you are running forced intake definately something to consider.

 

[HellFire]

A PCIII and GIPro combo is looking better and better.
I'm just rattling cages ... no need to spank me. LOL
I'd probably be tinkering with a TuneBoy myself if I weren't so **** lazy.