Claviger
Aspiring Student
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 6,934
- Location
- Olympia Washington
- Ride
- '21 Z H2, '14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
TLDR:. The stock (or stockish) R3R is a fantastic bike I never gave quite enough credit to. It is fast enough to challenge nearly any skill level rider through canyons/mountains, handles well enough to thrill, and can easily double most posted speed limits on most corners if ridden well. There is room for improvement, but they'll be incremental.
I just got back from a 2 day 550 mile loop through the Cascade Mountains. With my bike still down due to timing chain failure, I had the keys to a very nearly stock 2011 Roadster with some nice accessories throw to me. It's so nearly stock, it still has the original ME 880s (now dead and worn out). Mods that change power delivery consist of a single exit slip on using stock headers that eliminates the cat box and a mild tune, that's it. Likely around 130hp.
This was, perhaps,one of the greatest things to recently happen to me in the world of Rocket Captaining. Why? Well, my R3R didn't stay stock very long, and when it was I was limited to the mediocre Oahu roads. As such, I never got the opportunity to ride it through any canyons or mountains prior to adding 50hp, Wilbers 642s, Fork springs, etc etc. Thus, my basis and frame of reference for a "near stock rocket" was very warped.
I set out expecting a wallowing, slow steering, low torque beast with no power over 4500 RPM. My expectations were destroyed and I now feel that I have never given the stock components enough credit. I'm going to have to break this down in a few sections.
Power Delivery:
The setup as ridden, is incredibly linear feeling to the butt. Good torque everywhere that doesn't totally nose over at higher RPM. It pulled cleanly to redline, for mountain roads and corner carving I had no issues with the power available. In fact, I felt far less stressed going nuts powering out of corners with the knowledge that it's never going to hit "bonkers mode", like my bike does at 4000 RPM and try and rip the tire loose.
One thing that particularly surprised me, even this nearly stock bike did NOT like being ridden at 20% throttle between 1800-2100 RPM, this being the 4th R3 I've ridden and every single one did it (but this was the least modified). It creates a minor tremor from the engine, clearly it's happier with more throttle input or more RPM, either eliminates the vibration. I've spent probably 50 hours trying to eliminate it on my bike, and now, I know it's a resonance issue between the balance shaft and rotating assembly. So the "problem" I was trying to squash, well, it just isn't a problem, it's just the character of the design.
Ridden below 1700 or from 2200 and up, very smooth and very nice. Never lacking for response or torque. What, to me, was missing was the big rush of torque at 3800-4000, not having it makes the bike far easier to ride hard, while not and thrilling, it's much easier to work the bike hard.
As the saying goes, slow bike fast is more fun than fast bike slow...
Suspension:
I am now a far more proficient and capable Captain than I was prior to swapping to the Wilbers. I can push the stock setup much harder than I could then, having a lot more Rocket seat time, as well as track experience now. I expected a wallowing beast that fought me through the turns..... Boy was I wrong.
The stock setup, when pushed on smooth roads, is actually quite capable. The wallowing can be easily overcome by application of go-stick, using the shaft effect to carry the chassis through corners and gain back precious ground clearance. I was comfortable to about 5mm from the edge of the ME880 at 90mph powering out of turns. I will concede that I was climbing around on the bike, generally hanging off the inside and helping the chassis as much as I could by trying to reduce the amount of work it had to do with good (read: active) riding habits.
Where the stock shocks absolutely fail, is rough roads. Never, have I ever, had my groin/buttocks hit harder than some of the bumps today. So hard were some mid corner bumps, I'd intentionally over steer into the turn, just so I could stand the bike up, cross the bump, and drop it back into the cornering line. For this reason alone, I call stock suspension unacceptable. My hard sprung Wilbers soak bumps much better than OEM, despite the claim by many that they're the "hardest" of all aftermarket shocks (probably an accurate claim). I do not recommend Wilbers to anyone who wants a "plush" ride, only to those after performance with no compromise, and despite that, they're still more comfortable than OEM roadster shocks.
Tires:
This might irk some people... I've run OEM Metzlers front/rear, Cobras front/rear, Metzler Front G852 rear, Metzler Front Emax rear, and Cobra front Emax rear (current on my bike). Today I was on 3/4 worn (at the outset, now 9/10ths worn) ME880s on both ends.
There's no lack of grip on the ME880s in the dry, so throw that argument out, period. There were two unpleasant behaviours I found when push the Metzlers hard, and they are your warning that you're about to exceed the ME880s happy place.
Warning One: 30mph indicated, VERY long right hand, up hill tight sweeper with little camber. Entered the turn at around 45, and rolled on through the turn at a high bank angle. Around 55-60, the bike started doing a little bit of a "weave", the slow gently osculating kind that isn't super scary, but is a warning. Applied neutral throttle and a kiss of rear brake to drop a few MPH and it stopped.
Warning Two:. When powering out of near edge of tire corners, and getting a little generous with the power, the ME880 would occasionally feel like I had just hit a paint stripe, giving that slight "slip" feel. The brain automatically backs the throttle off, rubber side stays down. It's not a good feeling, nor was it totally predictable. Was it slipping or did it just feel like it was slipping? No idea, but, know that on the edge of the tire, it'll give you a warning, heed it. The Emax and Avon do NOT do this, they bite and beg for more, this trait alone is reason enough for me to never run another ME880. Bad mileage is one thing, feeling like it's going to cause a low-side at 1/2 throttleish is just plain scary.
On the front tire, after our trip and nearly home, when letting go of the bars at 40mph ish, they started to wobble. I deliberately tested this when we set out and they didn't even have a hint of it. I can therefore only conclude that the ME880 when ridden quickly through corners develops scalloping leading to the wobble oh so many Captains have felt.
Huge appreciation to @1olbull for tossing me the keys and setting a fun pace through the north Cascades (probably without realizing how challenging said pace was on said near stock bike).
This trip reinforced the order of modification I always recommend for R3 Roadsters, that being:
1. Derestricing Tune
2. TIRES (anything but the ME880s)
3. Shocks (Literally anything not OEM).
4. Power - Get the grip and feel sorted first, then add power.
Things many of us change (myself included), but didn't bother me in the slightest when riding quickly:
Bars
Forks
Pegs
Seat
Brakes
Levers (I'm considering going back to powder coated stockers now lol).
All these are naturally points that can be improved, but, I found nothing standing out as "intolerable" or, honestly, even annoying.
Finally, this is now the third rocket, that I don't own, which I've ridden and had a smooth, easy effort, positive engagement transmission. If your transmission misbehaves in any way, is hard to shift, and clunks going into any gear besides 1st, I am of the opinion something isn't assembled correctly. My original trans, the second, and the third, all had issues with the assembly/installation. It wasn't until the fourth time, when I did it myself, that I ended up with a correct feeling transmission, and now having ridden 3 correctly assembled non-robinson bikes, I would say correct OEM feels 95% as good as a proper Robinson transmission, quite smooth, quite good.
Just wanted to get these thought and observations written down before they fade from memory.
The whole point: The stock bike is probably faster than most riders are. Get to know it before deciding to change parts and do upgrades, they may not actually be necessary.
I just got back from a 2 day 550 mile loop through the Cascade Mountains. With my bike still down due to timing chain failure, I had the keys to a very nearly stock 2011 Roadster with some nice accessories throw to me. It's so nearly stock, it still has the original ME 880s (now dead and worn out). Mods that change power delivery consist of a single exit slip on using stock headers that eliminates the cat box and a mild tune, that's it. Likely around 130hp.
This was, perhaps,one of the greatest things to recently happen to me in the world of Rocket Captaining. Why? Well, my R3R didn't stay stock very long, and when it was I was limited to the mediocre Oahu roads. As such, I never got the opportunity to ride it through any canyons or mountains prior to adding 50hp, Wilbers 642s, Fork springs, etc etc. Thus, my basis and frame of reference for a "near stock rocket" was very warped.
I set out expecting a wallowing, slow steering, low torque beast with no power over 4500 RPM. My expectations were destroyed and I now feel that I have never given the stock components enough credit. I'm going to have to break this down in a few sections.
Power Delivery:
The setup as ridden, is incredibly linear feeling to the butt. Good torque everywhere that doesn't totally nose over at higher RPM. It pulled cleanly to redline, for mountain roads and corner carving I had no issues with the power available. In fact, I felt far less stressed going nuts powering out of corners with the knowledge that it's never going to hit "bonkers mode", like my bike does at 4000 RPM and try and rip the tire loose.
One thing that particularly surprised me, even this nearly stock bike did NOT like being ridden at 20% throttle between 1800-2100 RPM, this being the 4th R3 I've ridden and every single one did it (but this was the least modified). It creates a minor tremor from the engine, clearly it's happier with more throttle input or more RPM, either eliminates the vibration. I've spent probably 50 hours trying to eliminate it on my bike, and now, I know it's a resonance issue between the balance shaft and rotating assembly. So the "problem" I was trying to squash, well, it just isn't a problem, it's just the character of the design.
Ridden below 1700 or from 2200 and up, very smooth and very nice. Never lacking for response or torque. What, to me, was missing was the big rush of torque at 3800-4000, not having it makes the bike far easier to ride hard, while not and thrilling, it's much easier to work the bike hard.
As the saying goes, slow bike fast is more fun than fast bike slow...
Suspension:
I am now a far more proficient and capable Captain than I was prior to swapping to the Wilbers. I can push the stock setup much harder than I could then, having a lot more Rocket seat time, as well as track experience now. I expected a wallowing beast that fought me through the turns..... Boy was I wrong.
The stock setup, when pushed on smooth roads, is actually quite capable. The wallowing can be easily overcome by application of go-stick, using the shaft effect to carry the chassis through corners and gain back precious ground clearance. I was comfortable to about 5mm from the edge of the ME880 at 90mph powering out of turns. I will concede that I was climbing around on the bike, generally hanging off the inside and helping the chassis as much as I could by trying to reduce the amount of work it had to do with good (read: active) riding habits.
Where the stock shocks absolutely fail, is rough roads. Never, have I ever, had my groin/buttocks hit harder than some of the bumps today. So hard were some mid corner bumps, I'd intentionally over steer into the turn, just so I could stand the bike up, cross the bump, and drop it back into the cornering line. For this reason alone, I call stock suspension unacceptable. My hard sprung Wilbers soak bumps much better than OEM, despite the claim by many that they're the "hardest" of all aftermarket shocks (probably an accurate claim). I do not recommend Wilbers to anyone who wants a "plush" ride, only to those after performance with no compromise, and despite that, they're still more comfortable than OEM roadster shocks.
Tires:
This might irk some people... I've run OEM Metzlers front/rear, Cobras front/rear, Metzler Front G852 rear, Metzler Front Emax rear, and Cobra front Emax rear (current on my bike). Today I was on 3/4 worn (at the outset, now 9/10ths worn) ME880s on both ends.
There's no lack of grip on the ME880s in the dry, so throw that argument out, period. There were two unpleasant behaviours I found when push the Metzlers hard, and they are your warning that you're about to exceed the ME880s happy place.
Warning One: 30mph indicated, VERY long right hand, up hill tight sweeper with little camber. Entered the turn at around 45, and rolled on through the turn at a high bank angle. Around 55-60, the bike started doing a little bit of a "weave", the slow gently osculating kind that isn't super scary, but is a warning. Applied neutral throttle and a kiss of rear brake to drop a few MPH and it stopped.
Warning Two:. When powering out of near edge of tire corners, and getting a little generous with the power, the ME880 would occasionally feel like I had just hit a paint stripe, giving that slight "slip" feel. The brain automatically backs the throttle off, rubber side stays down. It's not a good feeling, nor was it totally predictable. Was it slipping or did it just feel like it was slipping? No idea, but, know that on the edge of the tire, it'll give you a warning, heed it. The Emax and Avon do NOT do this, they bite and beg for more, this trait alone is reason enough for me to never run another ME880. Bad mileage is one thing, feeling like it's going to cause a low-side at 1/2 throttleish is just plain scary.
On the front tire, after our trip and nearly home, when letting go of the bars at 40mph ish, they started to wobble. I deliberately tested this when we set out and they didn't even have a hint of it. I can therefore only conclude that the ME880 when ridden quickly through corners develops scalloping leading to the wobble oh so many Captains have felt.
Huge appreciation to @1olbull for tossing me the keys and setting a fun pace through the north Cascades (probably without realizing how challenging said pace was on said near stock bike).
This trip reinforced the order of modification I always recommend for R3 Roadsters, that being:
1. Derestricing Tune
2. TIRES (anything but the ME880s)
3. Shocks (Literally anything not OEM).
4. Power - Get the grip and feel sorted first, then add power.
Things many of us change (myself included), but didn't bother me in the slightest when riding quickly:
Bars
Forks
Pegs
Seat
Brakes
Levers (I'm considering going back to powder coated stockers now lol).
All these are naturally points that can be improved, but, I found nothing standing out as "intolerable" or, honestly, even annoying.
Finally, this is now the third rocket, that I don't own, which I've ridden and had a smooth, easy effort, positive engagement transmission. If your transmission misbehaves in any way, is hard to shift, and clunks going into any gear besides 1st, I am of the opinion something isn't assembled correctly. My original trans, the second, and the third, all had issues with the assembly/installation. It wasn't until the fourth time, when I did it myself, that I ended up with a correct feeling transmission, and now having ridden 3 correctly assembled non-robinson bikes, I would say correct OEM feels 95% as good as a proper Robinson transmission, quite smooth, quite good.
Just wanted to get these thought and observations written down before they fade from memory.
The whole point: The stock bike is probably faster than most riders are. Get to know it before deciding to change parts and do upgrades, they may not actually be necessary.
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