"Red Hot" headers

[Willtill]

So....

I was washing my Rocket (engine warm) and after washing it; I towel dried her good. Decided to fire her up and get the water in the nooks and crannies evaporated (couldn't ride her since I was already half inebriated....)

It was starting to get dark out (dusk)

Let her run at idle for about 10 minutes, then twisted the throttle to about 2800 rpm and held her there. I was rewarded with cherry red hot headers; all the way down to the cat bypass.....

Very pretty but also disconcerting...

Have had other bikes with glowing head pipes; but I was very surprised that the Rocket GLOWED RED all of the way down to the cat bypass.

Am running a Standard Rocket 3 tune, secondaries opened 100 percent but nothing else special or messed with regarding A/F or other table modifications via Tuneboy.

So.....

....my question is this. Can someone with a standard tune (unmodified with tune boy) run up your Rocket at about 2800 rpm and observe the headers behind the heat shield? Tell me what you see. Does the entire header "glow red" behind the heat shields? Best to do this in low light conditions.

The reason why I'm asking this, is because I pulled the Standard Rocket Classic 3 tune off of Tuneboys website. If there a fatal issue with the tune (regarding an implied lean condition), I would like to know and the observations of a fellow Captain with an originally installed Triumph tune will help me make that determination.

Or....

....is all of my paranoia a result of cheap British steel?

 

[GPMAZ]

So....

Let her run at idle for about 10 minutes, then twisted the throttle to about 2800 rpm and held her there. I was rewarded with cherry red hot headers; all the way down to the cat bypass.....

Why would you do that?? Holding the throttle at 2800 RPMs on a stationary bike in neutral is not a good idea.

Its like dumping rocks down your garbage disposal and wondering why it makes a funny noise.

 

[Pig9r]

That is normal. A good standard issue EPA compliant tune. The stock tunes are very lean (less fuel used means less unburnt fuel out the exhaust which equals less pollution and also a hot catalytic converter to burn even more). A lean running engine is a hot engine. You are probably a little leaner than stock since the secondaries are open 100% of the time.

 

[HellFire]

Yeah, occasionaly mine glow after parking it in the dark garage at night. It seems to be primarily after the 40 mile highway ride home from work, I can't say that I've ever held the throttle that high in neutral before.

I also drench my bike with soap and water while washing it, my only concern is that I might get water in the spark plug recesses. So I try to avoid that area and use compressed air to blow the water off the engine and hidey-holes before running her up to 100mph prior to the final shammy wipe down. Just letting it idle for some time afterwards will heat up the engine enough to dry more wet spots, it also gives her a frequent 12 min tune as a bonus.

 

[wildwilley]

Glowing Red Exhaust

The stock factory tunes on the RIII are very lean for the reasons that Brian stated and it is normal to observe your exhaust glowing red. The exhaust begins to glow at normal cruise speeds (50 mph+) and you may notice that the 2nd and 3rd downpipe along with the exhaust log exhibits the most heat and glow. The front cylinder and 1st downpipe seems to run a bit cooler with less glow and this likely due to the closer proximity to the water pump. Many RIII riders may not notice the red glow due to the heat shields and a need to look down at the exhaust while driving at night.

When I first asked a seasoned Triumph mechanic if he was aware of the glowing exhaust on the RIII, he said he wasn't aware and replied that a too lean condition could result in burned exhaust valves. Afterwards, I confirmed with a Triumph factory trained technician associated with Newman, GA that the glowing exhaust is a normal occurrence on the RIII.

To help better understand this lean condition, hookup you Tuneboy and observe the throttle % used during normal cruise conditions of 2000 rpm – 3400 rpm which represents 50 mph – 80 mph+. You may be surprised by how little throttle % is used to sustain normal cruise conditions. Next, look at your AF tables corresponding to the cruise rpm range and matching throttle % and you will note how close they are set to the stoichiometric ratio of 14:7 to 1.

You can add fuel trim to these areas of the AF tables to richen the mixture and cool down the cylinders a bit. I was able to add enough fuel trim to eliminate the red exhaust glow but the cost was too great, mileage was less than 24 mpg and throttle response was lethargic. I needed to lean things up a bit in order to regain 28-30 mpg and have better throttle response. I had to compromise and still have some exhaust glow (albeit less) while cruising at minimal throttle settings. I have D & D's and the 3 K & N's that increase airflow, required enchrichment and reduced fuel mileage.

If you want to reduce the exhaust glow, just twist the throttle more and watch your speed!

 

[Willtill]

Why would you do that?? Holding the throttle at 2800 RPMs on a stationary bike in neutral is not a good idea.

Its like dumping rocks down your garbage disposal and wondering why it makes a funny noise.

2800rpm is not red-lining it. I held it for less than a minute; just to increase engine temp temporarily.

 

[Willtill]

That is normal. A good standard issue EPA compliant tune. The stock tunes are very lean (less fuel used means less unburnt fuel out the exhaust which equals less pollution and also a hot catalytic converter to burn even more). A lean running engine is a hot engine. You are probably a little leaner than stock since the secondaries are open 100% of the time.

Yes, I was wondering if I should reduce the secondaries to less than 100 percent in the cruising rpm range 2000-3000 rpm; since that is where I spend most of my time (lot of highway miles each day).

 

[Willtill]

The stock factory tunes on the RIII are very lean for the reasons that Brian stated and it is normal to observe your exhaust glowing red. The exhaust begins to glow at normal cruise speeds (50 mph+) and you may notice that the 2nd and 3rd downpipe along with the exhaust log exhibits the most heat and glow. The front cylinder and 1st downpipe seems to run a bit cooler with less glow and this likely due to the closer proximity to the water pump. Many RIII riders may not notice the red glow due to the heat shields and a need to look down at the exhaust while driving at night.

When I first asked a seasoned Triumph mechanic if he was aware of the glowing exhaust on the RIII, he said he wasn't aware and replied that a too lean condition could result in burned exhaust valves. Afterwards, I confirmed with a Triumph factory trained technician associated with Newman, GA that the glowing exhaust is a normal occurrence on the RIII.

To help better understand this lean condition, hookup you Tuneboy and observe the throttle % used during normal cruise conditions of 2000 rpm – 3400 rpm which represents 50 mph – 80 mph+. You may be surprised by how little throttle % is used to sustain normal cruise conditions. Next, look at your AF tables corresponding to the cruise rpm range and matching throttle % and you will note how close they are set to the stoichiometric ratio of 14:7 to 1.

You can add fuel trim to these areas of the AF tables to richen the mixture and cool down the cylinders a bit. I was able to add enough fuel trim to eliminate the red exhaust glow but the cost was too great, mileage was less than 24 mpg and throttle response was lethargic. I needed to lean things up a bit in order to regain 28-30 mpg and have better throttle response. I had to compromise and still have some exhaust glow (albeit less) while cruising at minimal throttle settings. I have D & D's and the 3 K & N's that increase airflow, required enchrichment and reduced fuel mileage.

If you want to reduce the exhaust glow, just twist the throttle more and watch your speed!

Thank you WildWilly, that puts a lot more of this in better perspective for me.

What would be good starting percentages to add to the fuel trim table to decrease the stoichiometric ratio of 14:7 to 1 to something around 13:7 to 1?

 

[Willtill]

I just stuck the 20226 tune back in it with secondaries left at OEM specifications. I need to get to Wayne and be tuned properly..... Waiting on Predator's and triple K&N's before I do that....

 

[Power-Tripp]

If you are worried about the exhaust glowing red, you might want to look down the throttle bores in a running engine on the dyno. Intake valves can glow a dull red color as well.