Silver Bullet

Supercharged
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
238
Location
Washington
OK. After extensive reading it becomes apparent that the PCIII VS Tuneboy preference is really a one sided affair if one believes what is posted on the Web sites for each with the Tune Boy being much more capable in dealing with several R3 issues.

The delema is that the only dyno facility that has someone who knows what they are doing and within 200 miles uses Dyno Jet/PCIII technology.

I understand that the same dyno can be used with the Tune Boy software and I intend to ride to the site today and talk to the guy who owns the business about doing his first R3 and see if he is interested in using the Tuneboy software.

My R3 has the TOR pipe update and the K&N filter. Does Tune Boy have a tune up for this equipment installed? Remember, I am not so much interested in more power...yet...but am focused on getting rid of that **** popping on decel. It is driving me nuts. I do understand that this popping is a lean out on decel and can be addressed using PCIII but my intent is to puchase this type software only once.

Any advise from the Captains??? :confused:
 
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dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,582
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
OK. After extensive reading it becomes apparent that the PCIII VS Tuneboy preference is really a one sided affair if one believes what is posted on the Web sites for each with the Tune Boy being much more capable in dealing with several R3 issues.

The delema is that the only dyno facility that has someone who knows what they are doing and within 200 miles uses Dyno Jet/PCIII technology.

I understand that the same dyno can be used with the Tune Boy software and I intend to ride to the site today and talk to the guy who owns the business about doing his first R3 and see if he is interested in using the Tuneboy software.

My R3 has the TOR pipe update and the K&N filter. Does Tune Boy have a tune up for this equipment installed? Remember, I am not so much interested in more power...yet...but am focused on getting rid of that **** popping on decel. It is driving me nuts. I do understand that this popping is a lean out on decel and can be addressed using PCIII but my intent is to puchase this type software only once.

Any advise from the Captains??? :confused:

If you have the TOR's and cat bypass, use this tune in Tuneboy:

http://www.r3owners.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=41&d=1155692504

Before you download it, uncheck the O2 sensor box in Tuneboy and disconnect the sensor under the right side panel (the black triangular one in front of the painted one).

Don't ride 200 miles to ask - just call him. Most DynoJet tuners won't get into Tuneboy. If they do, it will cost.
 

Silver Bullet

Supercharged
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
238
Location
Washington
Update

Doug: Thank You for the data referral. This is a very interesting subject for me as I have always been a carb tuner during by Drag Racing career which ended last year. It is amazing that one can tune a vehicle to max performance and almost not get your hands dirty...lol.
Because it was Saturday and a very nice day to ride, the wife and I went to the business location of the dyno jet guy in Pendleton OR. He in fact stated that he had never had an R3 on the rack and was curious what it would put out on his dyno. I asked him to hook it up and run it for a baseline of information for later use. I explained to him that I was thinking about the purchase of Tuneboy and the pros and cons VS. PS III tuning software.
I concluded that he is very knowledgable about his dyno and how to tune a H-D v- twin. Craig (dyno owner) stated that he had never heard of Tuneboy software. We went to the internet and he looked up the capabilities and was very impressed with the capability but at the same time disappointed that the software was not available for H-D.
I am going to purchase the software required, load it into a lap top, fix the popping problem and take the bike back to the dyno for fine tuning.
The numbers for the two pulls on the dyno were based upon 74.98 degrees, 28.54 in-hg, Humidity 26%. Sorry I do not have the corrected altitude.
1st pull: 132.05 hp---Max torque 134.77
2nd pull: 131.83 hp---Max torque 135.05
According to Craig, this engine is running way too lean and really needs some serious retuning especially at 75 MPH where the AF mix was at about 13.6 and off the "red" scale to the lean side on his PCIII program. He questioned whether the existing tuneup was going to damage the engine over time?
By the time we had made the two pulls, several of his V-twin customers had come into the shop and were more than curious about the R3 and the hp/torque at the back tire.
Later and in private, Craig stated that his business is based on high performance tuning/engine alterations and was now aware of the capability of the R3 1st hand. He predicted that he will have to purchase the software for his business because he knew that he was going to loose several V-twin customers to the R3 and he had better get the software and know how to use it.
Thought you other captains would be interested (maybe not?) in the findings so far. Any comments???
 

mav68

.020 Over
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
37
I had exactly the same set up as you Tors and underseat K&N. Thought the bike ran really well and was content except for decel popping. I dynoed it last week and had exacly the same numbers 132rwhp and the tuner said dangerously lean. I bought tuneboy and hooked it up. Found out that dealer had put Triumph tune no.20055 in it from new which wasn't correct for the setup so loaded tune 20050 from tuneboy website with the speedo correction and secondaries open 100%. The bike runs so much better and smoother it is instantly noticeable. Am running on dyno again later this week to confirm but I have no doubt will be pulling in the vincinity of 145rwhp as the tune states. All instructions on tunes and getting rid of decel pop are on this forum. The information here is considerabley more reliable than any dealer has too offer. It is about a 2min process to try the different tune boy tunes posted here and on their website.
Cheers Mav
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,582
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
Doug: Thank You for the data referral. This is a very interesting subject for me as I have always been a carb tuner during by Drag Racing career which ended last year. It is amazing that one can tune a vehicle to max performance and almost not get your hands dirty...lol.
Because it was Saturday and a very nice day to ride, the wife and I went to the business location of the dyno jet guy in Pendleton OR. He in fact stated that he had never had an R3 on the rack and was curious what it would put out on his dyno. I asked him to hook it up and run it for a baseline of information for later use. I explained to him that I was thinking about the purchase of Tuneboy and the pros and cons VS. PS III tuning software.
I concluded that he is very knowledgable about his dyno and how to tune a H-D v- twin. Craig (dyno owner) stated that he had never heard of Tuneboy software. We went to the internet and he looked up the capabilities and was very impressed with the capability but at the same time disappointed that the software was not available for H-D.
I am going to purchase the software required, load it into a lap top, fix the popping problem and take the bike back to the dyno for fine tuning.
The numbers for the two pulls on the dyno were based upon 74.98 degrees, 28.54 in-hg, Humidity 26%. Sorry I do not have the corrected altitude.
1st pull: 132.05 hp---Max torque 134.77
2nd pull: 131.83 hp---Max torque 135.05
According to Craig, this engine is running way too lean and really needs some serious retuning especially at 75 MPH where the AF mix was at about 13.6 and off the "red" scale to the lean side on his PCIII program. He questioned whether the existing tuneup was going to damage the engine over time?
By the time we had made the two pulls, several of his V-twin customers had come into the shop and were more than curious about the R3 and the hp/torque at the back tire.
Later and in private, Craig stated that his business is based on high performance tuning/engine alterations and was now aware of the capability of the R3 1st hand. He predicted that he will have to purchase the software for his business because he knew that he was going to loose several V-twin customers to the R3 and he had better get the software and know how to use it.
Thought you other captains would be interested (maybe not?) in the findings so far. Any comments???

I assume you have the cat bypass pipe too as well as the TOR's? If so, Triumph should have put in 20149. With my 20050 decel tune, I got 140 hp/150 ftl lb and a pretty flat 13.5-13.7 A/F. This is not dangerously lean. After I ran the Tuneboy Tune, I downloaded the stock Triumph tune for TOR's/Cat bypass, which at the time was 20054. The peak HP went down to 138 and the peak torque to 144, but this was because of the limitation in the secondaries table. The A/F stayed about the same.
 

Silver Bullet

Supercharged
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
238
Location
Washington
TORS Crossover

Mav it sounds like the dealerships did the same thing on both our bikes. This bike has never seen a wrench from anyone accept the dealer since being new 3500 miles ago, infact I was told byt he 1st owner that all the optional equipment was installed by the dealership. He must have liked to give his money away....lol.

Doug you are correct in that the crossover pipe is there also. The Dyno printout sheet generated with the Dyno Jet programs states the following:
A/F mix started at 18 @ 1800 RPM drops to 16.5-17.5 to 2700 RPM then drops steadily off reaching 13.6 or so @3400 RPM and flat lines all the way to 6600 RPM.
My question is...how does the PCIII figure that the bike is leaning out at 75 MPH with the A/F figure at 13.6 and is that lean enough to cause internal damage over time? What should it be??

I will go forward with this project and change the tuneup respective to the equipment that I know was installed. Thank you gentlemen for the referal information regarding the right tuneup for the options on the bike.

PS. I now understand why most professional tuners (Shop Owners) who are trying to make a living doing this type of work stay away from Tuneboy. The business of buying a seperate key for each bike is not a price most bike owners (the end users) are willing to pay for what is probably a one time customer tune-up. If an owner is racing his bikes and needed the changes quite often then maybe...
 
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HeR3tic

Living Legend
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
3,454
Location
Heart of Dixie (Alabama)
dougl, could you possibly shed some light on why the differences in the tunes: 20150 and 20143 relative to the L1, L2, and L3 tables. The latter is the Classic tune. Why the differences between standard (not Classic) and Classic.
 

Pig9r

Living Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
4,843
Location
Kansas City, MO USA
Silver Bullet- As far a dyno tuning goes, the major differences between Tuneboy and a PCIII is that a PCIII can tune the a/f mix while the bike is running and on the dyno. With tuneboy you have to stop and change the tune, reload, do another run, shut it off, tune, reload. Tuneboy also offers an infinate amount of adjustment, whereas a PCIII is more "general." Tuneboy can emulate a PCIII and interact directly with the dynojet software however you still have to shutdown and reload the tune.

With that being said, those that have dyno tuned with Tuneboy have to spend much more time on the dyno which equals more $$$. What I did was load the best Tuneboy tune I could (which had some ignition mapping done by Wayne from Tuneboy) and installed a PCIII. I then had it mapped at a dynojet tuner. It took about an hour and I ended up with 152 hp, 155 ft/lbs. My a/f ratio is 13.5 to 1. I then removed the PCIII, then loaded the custom PCIII dyno fuel map into the Tuneboy tune I had loaded prior to the dyno run and reloaded that tune into the bike. I now offer my PCIII for rent in the classified section for others wanting to do the same thing.

Buying a key for tuneboy isn't a greater expense than buying a PCIII and having it installed. Most dynojet tuners are tuners in the sense that they can operate the dynojet software and tune via PCIII. However I would bet that a "true" tuner would much rather use Tuneboy because of the infinate settings and the ultimate control you have over what the ECU does. If Tuneboy had the engineering support, distribution and offered the training that dynojet does, it would be just as comman.

HeR3tic- I have not noticed any differences in fuel maps between any of the tunes. I think Triumph just controlled fueling by the secondaries in the aftermarket pipes tunes.
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,582
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
dougl, could you possibly shed some light on why the differences in the tunes: 20150 and 20143 relative to the L1, L2, and L3 tables. The latter is the Classic tune. Why the differences between standard (not Classic) and Classic.

Just a cursory look suggests there are no differences. You can download them and compare them as well as me. I believe the only tunes with enhanced fuel in the L tables are the ones Pig9r, me, and Wayne did for his custom exhaust tunes. Both 20143 and 20150 are stock tunes.
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,582
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
Mav it sounds like the dealerships did the same thing on both our bikes. This bike has never seen a wrench from anyone accept the dealer since being new 3500 miles ago, infact I was told byt he 1st owner that all the optional equipment was installed by the dealership. He must have liked to give his money away....lol.

Doug you are correct in that the crossover pipe is there also. The Dyno printout sheet generated with the Dyno Jet programs states the following:
A/F mix started at 18 @ 1800 RPM drops to 16.5-17.5 to 2700 RPM then drops steadily off reaching 13.6 or so @3400 RPM and flat lines all the way to 6600 RPM.
My question is...how does the PCIII figure that the bike is leaning out at 75 MPH with the A/F figure at 13.6 and is that lean enough to cause internal damage over time? What should it be??

I will go forward with this project and change the tuneup respective to the equipment that I know was installed. Thank you gentlemen for the referal information regarding the right tuneup for the options on the bike.

PS. I now understand why most professional tuners (Shop Owners) who are trying to make a living doing this type of work stay away from Tuneboy. The business of buying a seperate key for each bike is not a price most bike owners (the end users) are willing to pay for what is probably a one time customer tune-up. If an owner is racing his bikes and needed the changes quite often then maybe...

I had a dyno tune at a Honda shop and he said mine was 16 and off scale. I didn't believe it. Wayne didn't believe it. My Triumph mechanic didn't believe it. The dyno operator was a kid. My Triumph mechanic has been doing Dyno work for at least 25 years, mainly for V-Twin performance using DynoJet/PCIII. He was rwally pleased with the results I got with Tuneboy but will not get into it because it's not worth the time from his H-D business.

13.6 isn't too lean. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT! The stock Triumph tune (20149) for the TOR's/cat bypass will not kill your bike! It will just lower your peak torque ~2500-2700 rpm and pop on decel.

If you want to spend $400, get Tuneboy. This will allow you to open the secondaries, regain that peak torque, fix the speedo, put Wayne's tune in for your exhaust which is richer than anything stock, and fix the popping on decel. If you go the other route and put in a PCIII only, which will cost you $400 for the PCIII and $250 for a manual dyno tune, you'll still have the secondaries problem unless your physically take them out. If you do this, be sure to have Triumph put in one of the base tunes that has the same % values at eachl rpm in each gear in the secondaries table. Otherwise, you'll still be screwed up.
 
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