Pasta Rockets by Harley?

[W. Tripp]

It seems that HD may be looking into buying MV Agusta - including Caviga.

Harley-Davidson to buy MV Agusta? - Motorcycle News

 

[HeR3tic]

good god I HOPE NOT: "Harley has previously been linked with rumours around buyouts of several European manufacturers, most recently including Ducati, and the firm has also been suggested as a potential buyer for Triumph should John Bloor opt to sell the British firm. However, so far none of the rumoured deals have gone beyond the negotiation stage."

The fact that negotiations are underway, at first glance threatens to shelf the RIII 140 CID as a threat to hardley able-son. The V-Twin may be king but the RIII is the Beasty-FatBottomGirl and will KICK the **** out of ANY comparable v-twin. Face it, the Triumph Rocket III is more than many can handle. Anyone can ride a hardley. You don't hear of many hd riders downgrading to less INTENSITY.

 

[Jamie]

Once again and sadly enough, MV Agusta is indeed on the verge of facing the Italian equivalent of Chapter 11. Having to file for bankruptcy. That's from the Italian trade press.

Will the late 60's history repeat itself ? I mean HD bailing out moribund Aermacchi (old timers will vividly remember what I am talking about). Said bail-out being rationalized on both (unavowed) technological grounds and (delirously overstated) product and market expansion grounds. And said bail-out having eventually compounded HD's own in-house financial and product-related woes.

And let's keep in mind that Buell's majority stakeholder, i.e. HD, has already thrown the towel: Buell's new (11th hour, rather) sportbike is powered by Austria-made Rotax engines, versus yet another rendition of the otherwise venerable 1957-vintage Sporster V-twin.

It all boils down to a simple question: Can HD , for a change, come up with innovative/competitive technology on its own?

My answer, following the long-forgotten Aermacchi episode... the more recent Porsche-engineered V-Rod... pathetic CVO "premium" models followed by ordinary model-year bore & stroke tweaks to the last home-bred survivor (and cash cow) , i.e the "big V-twin" (have you seen the "new-for-2008" CrossBones baroque and/or tinsel issue ???)... the Rotax engine on the latest Buell, is:

IT EVIDENTLY CAN'T

Jamie

 

[W. Tripp]

I can think of a couple of reasons for HD to purchase MV and the included debt.
It could give HD a bit of protection from US currency issues while using some cash.
It could give Buell a technology infusion and good engine.
Combining MV designs with HD production and you could give the Jap manufacturers a run in a couple of specific markets.
It would finally give MV a parts and service network in the US - almost like opening up a new market.

HD has been sniffing around Euro MC manufacturers for a couple of years. I don't know how serious this is. Likely just initial talks. But it has the potential to be good for both companies.

The biggest issue is that HD has become top heavy and slow to react - almost as bad as the AMF days. They have zero ability to design engines and meet future market demands - look at the Porsche/V-rod engine fiasco that Fueling Engineering had to bail them out of. And a lot of HD's casting and supply is out of their own control.

This should be interesting to follow.

 

[HeR3tic]

Both EXCELLENT observations. A lot to think about.

The Rotax engine powering the Y designed three wheeler has my attention. I haven't a clue about the engine and neither did a many RIII Captains before they signed on. The Y frame three wheeler will eventually take a few left-ten-ettes to there POE.

 

[Sidecar Flip]

Once again and sadly enough, MV Agusta is indeed on the verge of facing the Italian equivalent of Chapter 11. Having to file for bankruptcy. That's from the Italian trade press.

Will the late 60's history repeat itself ? I mean HD bailing out moribund Aermacchi (old timers will vividly remember what I am talking about). Said bail-out being rationalized on both (unavowed) technological grounds and (delirously overstated) product and market expansion grounds. And said bail-out having eventually compounded HD's own in-house financial and product-related woes.

And let's keep in mind that Buell's majority stakeholder, i.e. HD, has already thrown the towel: Buell's new (11th hour, rather) sportbike is powered by Austria-made Rotax engines, versus yet another rendition of the otherwise venerable 1957-vintage Sporster V-twin.

It all boils down to a simple question: Can HD , for a change, come up with innovative/competitive technology on its own?

My answer, following the long-forgotten Aermacchi episode... the more recent Porsche-engineered V-Rod... pathetic CVO "premium" models followed by ordinary model-year bore & stroke tweaks to the last home-bred survivor (and cash cow) , i.e the "big V-twin" (have you seen the "new-for-2008" CrossBones baroque and/or tinsel issue ???)... the Rotax engine on the latest Buell, is:

IT EVIDENTLY CAN'T

Jamie

I fondly remember the HD Rapido and the Sears Twingle with the shower head air cleaner. Maybe AMF should have kept ownership. I had an AMF FLT. It was metallic blue with white fringe leather bags and a big white seat with a chrome rail on the back. It had cast wheels with the 'AMF' logo in the casting. T'was a nice bike for it's day. Of course it leaked, they all did. Marked it's spot. Of course it wasn't a Norton or a Bonnie so it wasn't fast. It lumbered. They all lumbered.

Fast forward to HD today. I'm sure that HD knows it's days are numbered with it's venerable V-Twin and it's forays into the Porsche designed engine with it's inherent troubles but, HD did the European route before without much success.

I had heard the MV was in trouble but aren't they always in trouble, especially labor trouble? I hear Itallians don't like to work, especially at factory jobs. What does HD have to gain? The factory isn't coming here, that's for sure, so the labor issues saty issues. If they (HD) were to buy the Itallian marque, they'd still be under the thumb of the Itallians for better or probably for worse.

HD has gotten sooooo many miles from it's iconic (in Willie G's eyes) V twin, what's left? There must be something chrismatic in a lumbering V-Twin, after all, didn't we just see a post about Indian? We all know what will happen to Indian, they will sell a few bikes, the couple of glitzy dealers that dump a bundle into a fancy building will go tits up, the company will file Chapter 11 and everyone will live happily ever after. Just like Dreer (of course Dreer still has my thousand bucks) but that's another story. I would have taken a night with one of those Norton Girls for a thousand........

I can think of a couple of reasons for HD to purchase MV and the included debt.
It could give HD a bit of protection from US currency issues while using some cash.
It could give Buell a technology infusion and good engine.
Combining MV designs with HD production and you could give the Jap manufacturers a run in a couple of specific markets.
It would finally give MV a parts and service network in the US - almost like opening up a new market.

HD has been sniffing around Euro MC manufacturers for a couple of years. I don't know how serious this is. Likely just initial talks. But it has the potential to be good for both companies.

The biggest issue is that HD has become top heavy and slow to react - almost as bad as the AMF days. They have zero ability to design engines and meet future market demands - look at the Porsche/V-rod engine fiasco that Fueling Engineering had to bail them out of. And a lot of HD's casting and supply is out of their own control.

This should be interesting to follow.

HD is flush with stockholders money. Of course it's USD which ain't worth much, but it does look good on a balance sheet.

I can't see the rank and file HD rider, potential purchaser accepting a ****** rocket in the showroom. HD riders stick their noses up at Buell's in the HD Dealerships. The Buell's always are relegated to a distant corner, cowering like wounded dogs in the masters bedroom.

HD is very nationalized. because of the gummit, all castings are cast overseas, mainly India. Caterpillar does the same thing. The wheels are laced in India, Japanese (Taiwan) carbs, Showa forks and shocks, Nippon-Denso electrics, European Dunlop tires. That's my favorite line with HD one percenter wannabees, get down on your frigg'in knees and look up and tell me what it says on the bottom triple clamp......

Somehowm I can't see another niche bike (ther Buell is a niche bike) like an MV Agusta in a HD showroom, let alone a Cagiva scooter.

Both EXCELLENT observations. A lot to think about.

The Rotax engine powering the Y designed three wheeler has my attention. I haven't a clue about the engine and neither did a many RIII Captains before they signed on. The Y frame three wheeler will eventually take a few left-ten-ettes to there POE.

I really like the three wheeler. Problem is, if it breaks, you are SOL. It has basically '0" parts availability. I still like the Guzzi sport tourer. It's a sharp and very capable bike but has no dealer representation in this country to speak of. That's one of the reasons I bought the KLR. There is a Kawasaki dealer in every town , just like HD. One our trip last year, I went through the Triumph website and complied a list of all the dealers in all the states east of the big muddy just in case I needed a dealer's service. There was precious few. Thank goodness the Rocket is reliable. It could be an ugly vacation if it broke down.