New battery; starting issues continue

[Bruzer05]

That's a YouTube link to my video of it trying to start. Previous post of mine was in 2014 soon after I had acquired the bike. Starting issue continues, even after a recent battery replacement completed by the shop. Have done several things over the years trying to get this thing running consistently. Tank was refinished on the inside by a shop due to corrosion several years back. I installed the Eastern Beaver headlight bypass kit. I installed an 8 gauge extra grounding wire to the frame. New battery prepared and installed by shop last week. I sanded the battery connections after the install to ensure a clean connection. This is just frustrating me to no end; I cannot reliably ride my bike. Sometimes, it will crank and crank and start. Other mornings, it will crank and crank and die.

Video Description: Continuous filming, no cuts/breaks. Turns over, but no start until 30 seconds into the video. Once it starts, I let run for about a minute, then shut down. It then re-starts no issue. New battery, 310 cranking amps. Weather in the 60s. Only sat for about 22 hours since last ride. Did basically same thing even after being on battery tender all night.

My previous post about the bike:

Litany of issues: no start, CEL, wiring possibly modified

History: 2008 Rocket III. Bought used from a small HD dealer in June 2013 while moving cross country. I should have been cautious because the check engine light and gas gauge light were on. Soon after, it had trouble starting. Would crank over several times before ignition, and once start...

www.r3owners.net

 

[oteczdmitriy]

If you add a throttle stick, does the bike start? If so, was the TPS replaced?

 

[CrzystghndKC]

That's a YouTube link to my video of it trying to start. Previous post of mine was in 2014 soon after I had acquired the bike. Starting issue continues, even after a recent battery replacement completed by the shop. Have done several things over the years trying to get this thing running consistently. Tank was refinished on the inside by a shop due to corrosion several years back. I installed the Eastern Beaver headlight bypass kit. I installed an 8 gauge extra grounding wire to the frame. New battery prepared and installed by shop last week. I sanded the battery connections after the install to ensure a clean connection. This is just frustrating me to no end; I cannot reliably ride my bike. Sometimes, it will crank and crank and start. Other mornings, it will crank and crank and die.

Video Description: Continuous filming, no cuts/breaks. Turns over, but no start until 30 seconds into the video. Once it starts, I let run for about a minute, then shut down. It then re-starts no issue. New battery, 310 cranking amps. Weather in the 60s. Only sat for about 22 hours since last ride. Did basically same thing even after being on battery tender all night.

My previous post about the bike:

Litany of issues: no start, CEL, wiring possibly modified

History: 2008 Rocket III. Bought used from a small HD dealer in June 2013 while moving cross country. I should have been cautious because the check engine light and gas gauge light were on. Soon after, it had trouble starting. Would crank over several times before ignition, and once start...

www.r3owners.net

Did you ever put a new fuel filter when you had the tank cleaned? The bike cranks fine now but just won't fire? Ever checked the plugs to see how they look?

 

[oteczdmitriy]

Also, how does the motorcycle behave at low speeds under load, does the engine feel rough?

 

[Gregger]

I noticed you didn't touch the throttle while starting and when it finally started, it was idling very slow. Have you tried adding a bit of fuel when starting the bike cold? Your battery and starter appear to be fine spinning the engine well. It appears you can also hear the fuel pump running and shutting off before cranking when ignition is turned on which would indicate it is fine. Verify it turns on then off. If it didn't turn off, it wouldn't be providing enough fuel pressure. Also the engine runs, just need to know how well. Once started, how does the bike run at all rpms? My first guess is that you aren't getting enough fuel on start up. The question is why? TPS or Stepper motor out of adjustment? As already been asked, can you provide any history? Thanks.

 

[oteczdmitriy]

Apparently the next post from @Bruzer05 will be in 2028 ...

 

[Bruzer05]

If you add a throttle stick, does the bike start? If so, was the TPS replaced?

Sorry, not sure what you mean by a throttle stick other than like a cruise control for riding. I have not replaced the TPS, but I notice in my maintenance records, a TPS recall SB 386 was performed in 2014. I have, in the past, added throttle during the start to see if it needed more fuel but that didn't seem to help. Once started, it idles and runs fine. I would suspect that a failed TPS would give issues at all times, not just during start? I am interested in your thoughts with this amplified information.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2007/RCRIT-07V455-9958.pdf

 

[Bruzer05]

Did you ever put a new fuel filter when you had the tank cleaned? The bike cranks fine now but just won't fire? Ever checked the plugs to see how they look?

The fuel filter was changed at the same time as the tank coating. If left sitting for half a day, it will crank for 10+ seconds and cut out. I will have to engage the starter again, sometimes it will light off on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, other times it will kill the battery. It reacts this way whether it was on a battery tender or not. I can smell fuel when it cranks but doesn't start, so I assume fuel is getting into the cylinders. It does not smell rich when running, just during the non-starting crank over.

If the bike has been running, and I stop at the store for an hour, it fires right up. I pulled the number 2 plug, looks fine to me. I reseated all the coils to make sure they weren't loose. If the plugs were failing, would that cause issues even when it is running? The throttle responds fine when I am riding; it idles fine once started. I'm hesitant to chase it with time/money if we can eliminate the plugs as a culprit; some don't seem easy to get to.

 

[Bruzer05]

Also, how does the motorcycle behave at low speeds under load, does the engine feel rough?

Bike rides fine once it starts. I think the idle surge in the video is due to excess fuel from the non-start crank over. It idles fine at lights; I can "pop" the throttle while waiting for the green. Immediate response off the line. I'm in Cali, so I give a bit extra throttle to announce me splitting the lane as I work towards the front of the line at stop lights.

 

[Bruzer05]

I noticed you didn't touch the throttle while starting and when it finally started, it was idling very slow. Have you tried adding a bit of fuel when starting the bike cold? Your battery and starter appear to be fine spinning the engine well. It appears you can also hear the fuel pump running and shutting off before cranking when ignition is turned on which would indicate it is fine. Verify it turns on then off. If it didn't turn off, it wouldn't be providing enough fuel pressure. Also the engine runs, just need to know how well. Once started, how does the bike run at all rpms? My first guess is that you aren't getting enough fuel on start up. The question is why? TPS or Stepper motor out of adjustment? As already been asked, can you provide any history? Thanks.

I appreciate all the thoughts. I think I may have addressed your questions as I responded to others this morning.

The ECU was adjusted in 2014 as part of recall SB 386.

I have not previously considered the stepper motor and will need to research that in more detail.

I have, on occasion, added throttle during start, but was concerned about flooding the engine as I can smell fuel during non-starts; it was about 60 degs in the video so not really "cold" compared to when I lived in Mich.

Thanks for the insight for the starter/batt/pump.

Engine seems fine to me once started. I have thought the initial start up RPM hunt was due to excess fuel from the extra crank overs. When it starts normally, it doesn't hunt. After it cranks and starts, the hunts settle out after a 30 or less seconds. During riding, the RPMs behave as I would expect in a normal functioning bike. I use engine braking a lot and get plenty of pop/crack. I also pop the engine while sitting at red lights - call it ADHD - and it reacts fine.

I think I will look into the Stepper Motor; that's a new thought I have not previously considered. Thanks to everyone for the help!