Consistently burning up R/Rs

Crotchburn

Standard Bore
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
7
Ride
2006 R3
Howdy all!

I've got an 06. If I replace the rectifier/regulator, the charging system will operate for a bit and then burn out the R/R.

I am getting voltage (while running at idle and 5k rpm) and impedance readings from the stator consistent with not having a bad stator.

I have searched and I have studied the wiring diagram. I have also ensured a good connection between the DC side of the R/R and the battery terminals.

Any suggestions? I ****ing hate chasing electrical pro lens in used automobiles. I am close to buying an m.Unit and just trusting that the problem will be resolved in the process of replacing errthang.
Tia
Alec
 
Are these all OEM Triumph Rocket RRs?

In an attempt to get a higher charging voltage I fitted an Electrosport "high performance" RR, and I got that higher voltage, but the RR burned out in a couple of thousand miles.

They replaced it under warranty.
But the new replacement one also burned up.

I out the OEM one back and it has stayed perfect, just a modest charging voltage, which is ok now as I no longer need the lithium battery since the 1.4kw starter motor upgrade.

But anyway - that's why I ask
 
In an attempt to get a higher charging voltage I fitted an Electrosport "high performance" RR, and I got that higher voltage, but the RR burned out in a couple of thousand miles.
I know you no longer need it - but for we Europeans - Silent Hektik do a series reg that is moreover designed to work properly with LiFePO4 batteries. It has a charging cycle that pulls it up to 14.4V but then drops so as not to risk flame type events. But is not at 14.4 long enough to damage wet lead/acid or AGM

I have one now on the Guzzi along with their alternator which looks very similar to Electrosport's.
 
Do a search on the board for "Shingdegen SH847AA". This is a R/R that can replace the stock R/R. It's connectors plug directly into the stock connectors. @Bedifferent makes/sells a way to mount it under the left hand side cover. See here. For me, the only problem I had is that it charges at 14.8 volts above 2,000 RPM. This is because I have changed out the stock headlight and driving lights with LEDs so there was not enough load on the system due to the lower draw of the LEDs versus the stock halogen lights. My understanding is that anything over 14.6 volts will cook a battery. I added two small halogen driving lights (Hella FF50) to increase the load and now everything is fine voltage wise.
 
Any suggestions? I ****ing hate chasing electrical pro lens in used automobiles. I am close to buying an m.Unit and just trusting that the problem will be resolved in the process of replacing errthang.
Tia
Alec
I would be VERY cautious about trying to pull an m-unit into the schematic for anything with a modern ECU. There are masses of components that the ECU requires and also feeds. Just fitted an M-unit to an older bike and yes! it's a fine thing. But tie it into an R3's electrics is something I would rather not even try.
 
What type of R/R are you replacing with?
Are these genuine Shindengen parts or EBay clones of OEM?
Ebay is flooded with these clones and they are just crap - price is good indicator, if less than about $120, it is most likely a clone. Because they are half the price of genuine replacement does not make them a bargain :D

Please validate your method of stator check:
What you want to do is check the resistance (isolation actually) between the stator and ground - measure between any ONE of the three terminals to engine ground (NOT pin to pin which will ALWAYS read virtual short whether good or bad and why you only need to measure ONE pin to ground for isolation test) - this should NOT be short (zero ohms) and should measure open (infinite resistance)
That is the only stator test you need to do and is pretty much an absolute pass/fail test.
If the stator is good, then if you're burning up regulators, would have to suggest you are probably buying a poor quality product.
 
I would be VERY cautious about trying to pull an m-unit into the schematic for anything with a modern ECU. There are masses of components that the ECU requires and also feeds. Just fitted an M-unit to an older bike and yes! it's a fine thing. But tie it into an R3's electrics is something I would rather not even try.
Following the stock wiring diagram and ensuring anything that only interacts with the ECU now only reacts with the ECU after installation of the m.unit (essentially a swap of the fuse panel) feels like a complex thing to attempt, but when you consider that it's just the same act of switching (1) wire completed over and over and over, this is not a difficult swap to make. I'm going to do it the same way we estimate electrical systems in buildings; eat the elephant one bite at a time. <3 TY for the heads up though, and I will definitely be reaching out to you when I burn both the m.unit and the ECU in a blaze of hubris. lol

What type of R/R are you replacing with?
Are these genuine Shindengen parts or EBay clones of OEM?
Ebay is flooded with these clones and they are just crap - price is good indicator, if less than about $120, it is most likely a clone. Because they are half the price of genuine replacement does not make them a bargain :D
They are genuine (albeit used) Shindengen parts, purchased from eBay. Both that I have purchased have the same dirty outline left by the mounting plate above the unit that my stock one has. While they are used, Occam's razor says that there is a reason (3) of them have failed (within 15 minutes of runtime).

Please validate your method of stator check:
What you want to do is check the resistance (isolation actually) between the stator and ground - measure between any ONE of the three terminals to engine ground (NOT pin to pin which will ALWAYS read virtual short whether good or bad and why you only need to measure ONE pin to ground for isolation test) - this should NOT be short (zero ohms) and should measure open (infinite resistance)
That is the only stator test you need to do and is pretty much an absolute pass/fail test.
If the stator is good, then if you're burning up regulators, would have to suggest you are probably buying a poor quality product.
I can confirm that this is how I checked for isolation, but per my response to the first part of your reply, it's not from having purchased a poor-quality product.

Do a search on the board for "Shingdegen SH847AA". This is a R/R that can replace the stock R/R.
It's something I'm considering, but I won't be making the change until I find what is burning my R/Rs.

I appreciate everyone's input, but there is something causing failure that is not related to the construction of the device.

I have confirmed my coils function as intended, but do not have a scope so I can't confirm there's no high voltage backfeeding into the 12v rail feeding them. That is one thing that COULD kill the R/R unit.

I will be pulling the main fuse (CKT 11) while it's running. It SHOULD die immediately, since the R/R is bad. If it doesn't die immediately it indicates the coils and ECU are getting power from somewhere that isn't where it's supposed to be (indication that someone rewired the bike and did it like someone who doesn't know how electricity works would do it).

Once I replace the R/R again I'll start it up and pull the fuse, and it will run like that with the starter and battery disconnected until the R/R dies. If it just straight up doesn't die, that means the problem is with the Battery or starter. My money is currently on the starter drawing power, leading the shunting mosfets in the rectifier to just overwork and burn.

Any thoughts?
 
.... My money is currently on the starter drawing power, leading the shunting mosfets in the rectifier to just overwork and burn.

The shunting MOSFETS do their most work when there is very LITTLE external load - the more external load there is, the less that is driven through the shunts.
 
Following the stock wiring diagram and ensuring anything that only interacts with the ECU now only reacts with the ECU after installation of the m.unit (essentially a swap of the fuse panel) feels like a complex thing to attempt, but when you consider that it's just the same act of switching (1) wire completed over and over and over, this is not a difficult swap to make. I'm going to do it the same way we estimate electrical systems in buildings; eat the elephant one bite at a time. <3 TY for the heads up though, and I will definitely be reaching out to you when I burn both the m.unit and the ECU in a blaze of hubris. lol
Any thoughts?
If your aim is FUSE panel elimination - a PDM60 would be better. I use this for ALL ancilliary wiring and I know @DEcosse used them with his keyless system before building his own unit.

You'd have upto 60 amps of switching capacity (that you control) whereas an m-unit is rated to 40A and requires a main fuse - especially to protect against failing R/R's. As you have an older R3 - a m-unit could be tied in (but I see no real point) but on more modern bikes with a can-bus etc - Hell no. Also from very recent first hand experience - the new top entry cabling m-unit is not (ime) as tidy to wire as the old side entry version. Also I think with the R3 you'd maybe still need the oem starter relay. That or you are going to find HUGE voltage drops across the m-unit. Guess how I found out!.

I have a MAJOR RULE for all this sort of thing. Until otherwise proven - ALL FAULTS are Earth faults.

And regarding shunt regs - what Ken said.
 
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