Cam chain/clutch/no start

[redtrek]

So I decided to start a new thread since my '06 Classic has a range of issues I'd appreciate your help addressing. IDK & Warp9.9, I know you guys and others on here know what you're talking about and I trust your advice.

So about my bike first: 2006 Classic, ~48k miles, EB headlight relay, wireless ignition, darkside, LED taillights/rear signals/brake light, 3 air horns (2 compressors), Antigravity 20-cell lithium battery, commoning bars for accessory wiring, secondary ground to frame, Toyota starter with separate relay.

First, I'm having that no-start problem AGAIN. This is quite frustrating, but I believe the problem may be the starter button. Should I attempt to disassemble that housing and clean the contacts, or would this be a good time to install a remote start as I've already done the keyless ignition conversion (although my second keyless unit just burned out, so I have a hotwire setup right now)? I could not find a thread for remote starters.

Additionally, when I was troubleshooting this, I thought perhaps the clutch position switch may be dirty. When I pull the clutch lever, I hear a funny noise from the front of the engine case, even though the bike is in neutral. I haven't had trouble shifting or popping out of gear, but neutral is sometimes hard to find.

Finally, I've started hearing the cam chain rattle at take-off with some consistency. I assume this indicates that it's time to replace the guides? Does anyone know if the $200 update kit is still available?

I've done almost all of the work on this bike over the last 30k miles, except that I had my mechanic check the lifter clearances last year and they were within tolerances.

Again, any and all advice or guidance is appreciated!


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[atomsplitter]

Sounds like your clutch piece is worn. That's little lever on top of the engine the clutch cable pulls. Try resetting the free-play to 2mm. The starter button may be a problem but I doubt it (unless the ignition switch barrel is burned). Does it make a clunk (solenoid engagement) or just nada when depressed?

 

[redtrek]

Sometimes it clicks the solenoid, sometimes it does nothing at all and sometimes the bike fires up on the first try. It started as clicking occasionally. Then it got to where it would click until I put the bike in gear, rolled it a little and popped the clutch, then I could just push the button and it would start. Now it will sometimes click & mostly not click and doesn't want to start at all.

I've done the keyless ignition, starter relay, Toyota Solara starter and doubled up the ground. I'm going to double-check my wiring to the starter relay and then will probably take apart the starter button to clean those contacts.


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[Dean0]

Replacing the cam chain guides was the fix for my cam chain rattle after replacing the cam chain alone... glad I had already invested in the $200 update kit, I recently got a price on it, unfortunately they are now asking over 2K for it.

 

[RocketEd]

My 2010 Roadster had the same starting issues. The starter button housing is easy to disassemble, the contacts easy to clean, so it can't hurt to try it. In my case it turned out to be an ever so slightly loose negative battery contact. In my case that created enough resistance to melt the main fuse.
Good luck!

 

[atomsplitter]

Make sure the battery terminals are tight and the ground lead has a clean metal surface under it.

 

[warp9.9]

Ah I am finally back in Illinois and have a computer to reply on. First I am not the most electrically inclined so I will have to defer the key-less stuff to IDK . I will how ever repeat everyones post above about insuring you have good contact on all the battery cables. especially where the bolt on to the starter and the engine case. Make sure you completely remove them and clean both surfaces. When it cone to taking the start button off to clean it is easy just don't drop the little spring. now you mentioned you changed the starter motor out for the toyota one. Did you change the plunger and contacts between the motor and the solenoid. or did you shorten the rod that came with the Toyota starter . If you left the originals in then you might need to clean the contact surfaces also.
the plunger


the contacts




Now can you go into a little more detail on these statements

"Additionally, when I was troubleshooting this, I thought perhaps the clutch position switch may be dirty. When I pull the clutch lever, I hear a funny noise from the front of the engine case, even though the bike is in neutral. I haven't had trouble shifting or popping out of gear, but neutral is sometimes hard to find.

what type of noise and is the engine running

Finally, I've started hearing the cam chain rattle at take-off with some consistency. I assume this indicates that it's time to replace the guides? Does anyone know if the $200 update kit is still available? "

update kit is 2 k now. but since yours has not had one. have you check the plunger drop on the cam chain tensioner to see if it needs the spacer to bring the spring pressure back up to what it is supposed to be? if the drop is 16 mm or more it s need the spacer. DO NOT TURN THE MOTOR OVER WHEN YOU HAVE THE CENTER NUT OUT OF THE TENSIONER!!!!!!!

 

[redtrek]

I did not change anything about the Toyota starter, although I did break one of the mounting bolts. I had it in place for the last year (or however long) with the top bolt in and a piece of 13 ga solid ground wire through the bottom. I notice the lower part of the case was a little further out at the back, so I finally got the threaded rod to properly align it again. After seeing your pictures of the plunger and contacts, it makes me wonder if that slight misalignment cause a gap that has allowed buildup on the contacts and/or plunger. I will disassemble it to find out.

I also think that I may have installed the separate starter relay incorrectly. I'm going to review that thread and make sure I did it right, because right now it looks to me like that relay is doing nothing to isolate the voltage to the starter or give it current directly from the battery.

As far as the noise when I pull the clutch lever, I've only heard it when the bike is not running. It still seems to shift just fine, except for neutral being hard to find sometimes. I have not had the front of the engine apart to check the physical state of the cam chain tensioners or the chain. That would be the most extensive mechanical work I've done on the bike and I find it a little daunting, but not so much that I won't do it. If I go to the length of checking the cam chain tensioners, would that be a good time to also replace/upgrade the clutch?

Finally, do you know if anyone on here has feedback contacts at Triumph for future design ideas? They made headlines when they came out with the world's largest production motorcycle engine in 2005. Eleven years later it seems to largely be the same bike, albeit with some minor design improvements for reliability and whatnot. My bike puts out about 165 bhp/163 Lb-ft of torque. I am constantly trying to shift into sixth gear that isn't there. So two questions: 1) Is it possible to swap out my transmission for a six-speed? 2) Should Triumph consider making headlines again by releasing the world's first production bike with a seven-speed transmission? I mean seriously, I could cruise Arizona freeways at 80 MPH in 7th gear at about 1800 RPM instead of almost 3500 RPM, get over 60 MPG and go more than 350 miles on a tank.

 

[redtrek]

After reading more about the starter relay, I'm fairly convinced I have a dirty plunger contact problem or a bad starter. I'm getting a solid clunk at the starter solenoid almost every time I push the button, but no action from the starter. I plan to take it apart tomorrow and clean it. I will keep this thread updated as I move through these few projects or if I run across something else going on with the beast. Thank you!

 

[redtrek]

So I disassembled and cleaned the plunger contacts in the starter solenoid. Still just a thunk when I try to turn it over. I'm going to get another starter motor, hopefully today, as I have reason to believe that may be the culprit.


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