Throttle position sensor issue

[Auto28]

Here you go the link to how to on the rat.net site

Hi Warp, after checking everything I could find on Idle sticking(Idles fine but staying up with clutch engaged into street intersections and the like) I went the TPS replacement using Tune ECU - seemed simple enough. Now idles fine but runs like a pig (popping & farting) just off idle ,say 1-5% throttle then perfect above this. I have gone through the process 4 times now and no difference. Throttle position % , voltage is gradual in operation on the tune ecu display even tried fitting the old tps -same ,I have now made a bigger fault than I had to start with. Any help/thoughts greatly appreciated. My bike has triple K&Ns ,Reband exhaust and dyno tuned to suit with TuneBoy -2 x maps -full power and a economy (between 5-20% TP) Ignition on 5 x stabs of the clutch toggles between the maps.

 

[warp9.9]

Hi Warp, after checking everything I could find on Idle sticking(Idles fine but staying up with clutch engaged into street intersections and the like) I went the TPS replacement using Tune ECU - seemed simple enough. Now idles fine but runs like a pig (popping & farting) just off idle ,say 1-5% throttle then perfect above this. I have gone through the process 4 times now and no difference. Throttle position % , voltage is gradual in operation on the tune ecu display even tried fitting the old tps -same ,I have now made a bigger fault than I had to start with. Any help/thoughts greatly appreciated. My bike has triple K&Ns ,Reband exhaust and dyno tuned to suit with TuneBoy -2 x maps -full power and a economy (between 5-20% TP) Ignition on 5 x stabs of the clutch toggles between the maps.

I am going to have to check with Dave to see what he has found unless he is going to post it on this thread. I will get back. I can tell you IMO pulling in the clutch lever should not change anything on the map it should just send signal that the clutch is in for starting the engine. the Gear indicator is what tells the ecu what gear it is in or if the bike is in Neutral for starting/and idling purposes. Let me call Dave and get him to post up some of his findings since you both have Roadsters which use a different ecu then mine or Justin's. Of course even though our ECU is different what Dave has found might help all.

 

[nolton]

Rockethead told me to check the tention on the throttle cables and they were tight. I gave them some slack and reset the adaptives and it ran fine.

I still haven't touched the TPS but I checked the throttle bodies again and # 3 was off by 20 and #1 by 10.
I noticed that it idled from 1040 to 1130. When I adjusted #1 the idle went back to 950.

 

[warp9.9]

Rockethead told me to check the tention on the throttle cables and they were tight. I gave them some slack and reset the adaptives and it ran fine.

I still haven't touched the TPS but I checked the throttle bodies again and # 3 was off by 20 and #1 by 10.
I noticed that it idled from 1040 to 1130. When I adjusted #1 the idle went back to 950.

Ya I just got off the phone with Dave and he has a valid point there if one of the cables it tight it could work against the stepper motor which could create a stumble. I would definitely pull the manual out and make sure they have the proper slack in them.

 

[warp9.9]

Here is something I wrote up about the throttle cables. I have posted it on a few threads because I believe it is important to get out there and something that can make for weird sounds in the engine do to it not being able to suck, squeeze, bang, exhale, and repeat

On another note which this may not be your problem but it is important to all Rocket owners. You should check you throttle cables to make sure they have the proper amount of slack in them. If they do not the throttle cables could be working against the throttle stepper motor. this will make the bike stumble. also if they are not set right the throttle bodies can be out of balance. (one of our members has been having problems and of course his throttle bodies were balanced. But as soon as he set his throttle cables right his throttle bodies were out of balance again. It is important that these cables and bodies are set right for it affect the amount of fuel the location on the map the bikes ability to adapt correctly, plus the ignition timing firing properly. all this could make for some slight pinging/detonation and or rattling of the engine. It may not be your issue but it is something that should be checked as it could be some of the noise you are hearing. We should all realize these bikes com in crates without the handle bars and controls attached and no front wheel either. here is where human error can creep in as it could be many people are setting the bike up a wee bit different although unintentionally. Some places have the bikes assembled at a different warehouse and then trucked to them who knows if the guys setting them up are even Triumph techs as they could be setting up many makes and models of bikes Heck they might not even be trained mechanics to save money. I also know there are some dealers that do set up their own bikes so this is not a kick to any dealer but most handle different lines or have had different lines before taking on the Triumph logo and bikes.
Again human error is a large cause of issues!!!!!!!
After all we are all human

 

[Auto28]

I am going to have to check with Dave to see what he has found unless he is going to post it on this thread. I will get back. I can tell you IMO pulling in the clutch lever should not change anything on the map it should just send signal that the clutch is in for starting the engine. the Gear indicator is what tells the ecu what gear it is in or if the bike is in Neutral for starting/and idling purposes. Let me call Dave and get him to post up some of his findings since you both have Roadsters which use a different ecu then mine or Justin's. Of course even though our ECU is different what Dave has found might help all.

The clutch diffinately does changed something , here is what I was sent by the tuner-
The Hex map that was in the bike was close but had problems with the A/F at the top end. I have used Tuneboy and now you have three maps.
Map 1 is full power
Map 2 is Economy for cruising (only between 5% and 20%TP the rest of the map is full power)
Map 3 is full power (can’t tune for a wet weather map without the sec butterflies)
To switch between maps, stop the engine, turn the key on, stab the clutch 5 times in 2 sec’s and the tacho will oscillate once for map1, twice for Map2 and three times for map3. I have it set to always start on map1.(Every time you turn the key on the bike will go to map1), If this doesn’t suit you I can set it to stay on whatever map you choose until you change it again

This was all done before buying the bike ,the previous owner passed this info on.

 

[warp9.9]

The clutch diffinately does changed something , here is what I was sent by the tuner-
The Hex map that was in the bike was close but had problems with the A/F at the top end. I have used Tuneboy and now you have three maps.
Map 1 is full power
Map 2 is Economy for cruising (only between 5% and 20%TP the rest of the map is full power)
Map 3 is full power (can’t tune for a wet weather map without the sec butterflies)
To switch between maps, stop the engine, turn the key on, stab the clutch 5 times in 2 sec’s and the tacho will oscillate once for map1, twice for Map2 and three times for map3. I have it set to always start on map1.(Every time you turn the key on the bike will go to map1), If this doesn’t suit you I can set it to stay on whatever map you choose until you change it again

This was all done before buying the bike ,the previous owner passed this info on.

Yes this is the new tune boy soft ware. Wayne writes it himself. otherwise if you copy a map in tune ecu you do not see the timing changes that can be made in both the F and L tables as tune ecu copies the original map. you can verify this by looking at early maps of the R3T tunes in both tune ecu and tune boy (tune boy without the multi trim map stuff) You will see the tune edit stuff has a timing changes that can be made on both F table and L tables but when you look at the same map in tune ecu it does not. Wayne is a software guru which is why his stuff is much more advanced the the Triumph stuff or the copied triumph maps in Tune ecu. Now if you disreguard the muti trim stuff in which you use the clutch to send a signal to the ecu telling it which trim map to use . then there is only one signal OEM style the clutch does. it tells the ecu the clutch is pulled in so the ecu can verify the kick stand is not down while it is in gear. if so it will not start Safety device. Like wise the ecu gets the signal and verify's the bike is in neutral and whether the kick stand is down or not does not matter as long as the bike is in neutral Other then that it has no bearing on any other map conditions that would change the way the bike runs. in fact in the new tune boy the only time you can select which trim map is when the bike is on but not running. If you think about it. it would be hazardous if you say were in icy conditions and pulled the clutch in 5 times while moving and the map switched to a race map. Therefore I submit my first statement is still true.
Now on to other very important questions since you have the new style tune boy and tune edit. Are you using the wireless hook up to send your maps or does the old style tune boy cable work. Have you used the live tuning yet? Have you tried the wide band O2 system on it yet? Have you tried to hook a laptop up to it while riding down the road and use the live tuning? And most important what do you think of it?

 

[Auto28]

Yes this is the new tune boy soft ware. Wayne writes it himself. otherwise if you copy a map in tune ecu you do not see the timing changes that can be made in both the F and L tables as tune ecu copies the original map. you can verify this by looking at early maps of the R3T tunes in both tune ecu and tune boy (tune boy without the multi trim map stuff) You will see the tune edit stuff has a timing changes that can be made on both F table and L tables but when you look at the same map in tune ecu it does not. Wayne is a software guru which is why his stuff is much more advanced the the Triumph stuff or the copied triumph maps in Tune ecu. Now if you disreguard the muti trim stuff in which you use the clutch to send a signal to the ecu telling it which trim map to use . then there is only one signal OEM style the clutch does. it tells the ecu the clutch is pulled in so the ecu can verify the kick stand is not down while it is in gear. if so it will not start Safety device. Like wise the ecu gets the signal and verify's the bike is in neutral and whether the kick stand is down or not does not matter as long as the bike is in neutral Other then that it has no bearing on any other map conditions that would change the way the bike runs. in fact in the new tune boy the only time you can select which trim map is when the bike is on but not running. If you think about it. it would be hazardous if you say were in icy conditions and pulled the clutch in 5 times while moving and the map switched to a race map. Therefore I submit my first statement is still true.
Now on to other very important questions since you have the new style tune boy and tune edit. Are you using the wireless hook up to send your maps or does the old style tune boy cable work. Have you used the live tuning yet? Have you tried the wide band O2 system on it yet? Have you tried to hook a laptop up to it while riding down the road and use the live tuning? And most important what do you think of it?

To be honest I am pretty new to the whole tuning thing especially in regards to bikes ,I am a auto electrician but mostly earthmoving equipment side of things so comfortable using computers for fault finding Cat,Cummins,etc.
I only have the latest Tune ECU and Lonelec cable as I wasn't planning on messing with maps, just for fault finding. Maybe a stupid question but can using Tune ECU to change the TPS and reset, mess with the map? Do I need to get the TuneBoy software/cable to sort this problem?

 

[warp9.9]

To be honest I am pretty new to the whole tuning thing especially in regards to bikes ,I am a auto electrician but mostly earthmoving equipment side of things so comfortable using computers for fault finding Cat,Cummins,etc.
I only have the latest Tune ECU and Lonelec cable as I wasn't planning on messing with maps, just for fault finding. Maybe a stupid question but can using Tune ECU to change the TPS and reset, mess with the map? Do I need to get the TuneBoy software/cable to sort this problem?

I am a little confused before your were talking about multiple trim maps which is Tune Boy/tune edit Made in OZ by Wayne McDonald of TUNE BOY now you are talking about TUNE ECU which was made in Germany I believe or maybe Alian is from France. the two main differences is Tune BOY Tune edit rewrites the software in the ECU while Tune edit copies the maps and basically uses the existing software in the ecu. Adjusting the TPS, balancing the throttle bodies is a different function from altering the maps. SO the answer to your question is TUNE ECU will do both but is limited to what the OEM software programming that is in the ecu. Tune ecu is also a free software. where tune boy has to be bought and a password which you pay for has to be generated by Tune boy. No password is needed for tune ecu and the cable is pretty cheap. You cannot use a tune ecu cable with tune boy software. Hope this clears things up a bit.

 

[Auto28]

I am a little confused before your were talking about multiple trim maps which is Tune Boy/tune edit Made in OZ by Wayne McDonald of TUNE BOY now you are talking about TUNE ECU which was made in Germany I believe or maybe Alian is from France. the two main differences is Tune BOY Tune edit rewrites the software in the ECU while Tune edit copies the maps and basically uses the existing software in the ecu. Adjusting the TPS, balancing the throttle bodies is a different function from altering the maps. SO the answer to your question is TUNE ECU will do both but is limited to what the OEM software programming that is in the ecu. Tune ecu is also a free software. where tune boy has to be bought and a password which you pay for has to be generated by Tune boy. No password is needed for tune ecu and the cable is pretty cheap. You cannot use a tune ecu cable with tune boy software. Hope this clears things up a bit.

I purchased the bike with the tuneboy maps already loaded and got the tuners details from the previous owner who also sent me the information as to what had been already done. I then contacted the the tuner to ask what I should purchase for future fault finding if required as I live in a remote area ,I was told Tune ECU would be fine diagnosing which is all I want to do.
I did use Tune ECU to change out the TPS - balanced throtle bodies before doing and test road but still had original fault ie slow return to idle when riding.Now runs like pig as described earlier just of idle to about 5% throttle.