I guess this as good a place to post this as anywhere else. If the moderators feel it would be better placed somewhere else (including the deleted items file), please do so.

All over the internet bike forums I see something occurring that I feel needs to be addressed. This is something that a few of us call "internet tuning", and involves the exchange of "tunes" among specific model bikes. There are a few issues that many do not seem to be knowledgeable about. Unfortunately, many bike forums have become "ignorance exchange programs" where old-wives'-tales and misconceptions are not only spread, but taken as gospel.

While downloading a "tune" into your bike that was derived from another bike with similar modifications is better than leaving the ECU mapping in stock form, it has flaws. The farther you modify your bike, the more the ECU mapping must be altered to compensate. There are large differences in the needs of the engines in bikes of the same make and model that carburetors used to compensate for, but EFI cannot. Uploading a "tune" into your bike's ECU or a piggy-back tuning device is a good place to start, but can easily be far from optimized. Plugging away and changing the data in various load cells in these tunes without accurate feedback, is comparable to trying to shoot a moving target in a dark room. While it is is possible to hit the target, without luck, it will likely take a lot of ammo, and the possibility of damaging something else is likely if you get careless.

Have you ever noticed how some bikes or cars (of the same make and model) run better than others? Many will tell you that much of this is due to production variances, I would agree, but only in part. In today's world, variances do exist, but they are a lot smaller that just a decade ago. A lot of variance comes from ring seal due to break in procedures. While this is a very involved subject on its own (too long to cover here), I will say I have easily seen differences of 3-4% at peak power and torque, and sometimes even larger. And this is amplified at lower rpm. For that matter, I have seen an easy 1.5-2% improvement in average torque when the cylinders are tuned for best results on an individual basis over a previously well tuned engine.

As a result of this, and other factors, two different bikes can easily need considerably different mapping or tuning.

OK, what the H...eck, is mapping? Mapping it the correct term for determining the fuel and ignition needs of a specific engine. It involves loading the engine at all load points and rpm points the engine will see (or may see) in all of the various operating conditions. This is not only fuel and spark, but also engine and air temps and pressures among a host of other variables. Tuning is the slight fuel and ignition changes needed for best performance under a given set of conditions - i.e.. a given track, altitude, fuel, etc.

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Today the term "Tuner" is being thrown around like it is a profession, and as a result, it is becoming one. The problem is that anyone with a dynamometer can call them self a "Tuner". This is a problem in that a "Tuner" may or may not have training or knowledge as to what a specific engine needs or wants to make best power, and often, they do not have the required experience and/or equipment to prevent damage to the engine, and the unknowledgeable consumer pays the penalty - especially after they have signed away their rights to litigation in the liability waiver prior to the "Tuner's" work.

Unfortunately, the standard today is using a Dynojet inertia dynamometer with a Power Commander (a Dynojet product). While I have been using these since their inception, they both have flaws that many are not knowledgeable about, and the correct method of compensating for these shortcomings is rarely mentioned (for many reasons). When a shop buys a dyno, they generally send someone (likely a shop technician) in the shop out to be "trained" on how to use the dyno and a tuning product like the Power Commander. As a result, this is the ONLY experience that the "Tuner" has, and, in many cases, the "Tuner" is only going through the motions he was taught, not fully understanding why and what he is doing. Most of these shops use software that reads the air/fuel ratio (AFR) and suggests or makes changes in the "tuning" based on this software. While this will get you in the ballpark, tuning to AFR is not going to get you best results, and does not take into consideration what the engine wants for best power. Each engine wants different things, and generally even wants them at different engine speeds and loads.

Many cycle shops tend to have a good turn-over in personnel - especially shop technicians. What happens when a shop loses the guy they sent out for training to operate the dyno? Do you think most of them send out a new guy for training? Really? This explains a lot of the experiences many customers have with "tuning" their bikes, but does not address the issues of dyno or even software variance over the years.

A lot of riders (and "Tuners" for that matter) do not understand how load, ignition timing, heat, and acceleration rate alter the needs of the engine. Nor do they understand that not all engines need or want the same things. H..eck, not all engine management systems react the same way to the same inputs, some are a lot smarter and adaptable than others. If the bike is not operated on a dyno in the same manner as it is operated on the street or track, any tuning done will not be optimal. By optimal, I don't mean tuned to the bleeding-edge as is required for racing, but simply best for good performance and manners on the street and track.

Ok, where does this leave most riders that are seeking performance gains? First, become informed. Read as much as possible on the subject, and talk with riders who have had work done by a specific shop. Talk with whoever in a given shop does the "tuning" to get a feel for his knowledge and experience. Find out how long the individual has been "tuning", and ask for references from customers.

While I am not in love with the Power Commander units, I accept the fact that for many, this may be the only option available, or that many shops are willing to even work with. In many cases, there are better options available, but many do not know about them, or are unwilling to learn to use them. Tuneboy/TuneEdit is one such product. I have only been using Tuneboy since 2005, IMHO, for the bikes/ECU's it covers, it is a much better option than a PC... IF you can tune or have someone work with it.

A good tuning job takes time. If a full re-map is required (as for forced induction), the time required is amplified. We have to face the facts that today manufacturers are forced to be more concerned with emissions and mileage than performance. As a result, most bikes have mapping done that is centered around these issues, and re-tuning for performance and/or mileage (they are not exclusive) can easily take a minimum of a couple of hours. If the tuning software or device requires that the bike not be running to flash the chip, it can take even longer. For Suzuki's using the handheld TEKA unit for tuning, it can take less time.

It can cost USD $350-$550 to tune a bike on top of the cost of a PCIII or Tuneboy. If you are paying less than this, question the results - tuning takes time, and time is money. For a good tuning job that pushes the limits of the fuel used, this can be an all day job as time is required for cool down cycles, watching engine operating parameters, watching for knock using a stethoscope or good knock sensor, etc. Tune the fuel tables perfectly and it all looks good. Then you start adjusting timing and the fuel needed at each point can easily be altered as well, so back to the fuel tables, then back to the ignition, etc. Are you starting to get an idea of the time required for good results?

When you find someone who knows what they are doing, and has developed the experience required for best results, keep a good relationship with them. A knowledgeable tuner is rare these days, and will likely cost you less in the long run.

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Quit comparing peak numbers from a dyno!
Even if you have a good baseline to compare the final results against, the variances between bikes different dynos, and different specs (all of the many SAE specs, DIN, SP, etc.) is too large to make a reasonable comparison.

The ONLY thing you can compare is the PERCENTAGE gained from a good baseline to the end result.

Peak numbers mean little in the real world. Other than the Engine Masters Challenge, no one races dynos. If you really have to make comparisons, compare AVERAGE horsepower (and especially average torque) where the engine spends time between shifts. This is what gives acceleration.

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Tuning options do exist outside of using a dyno, and for low throttle positions and lower rpm (or for improving transient response), on-the-road (or track) tuning will actually have superior results. But this requires a few pieces of equipment to measure results.

When I want to dial in the on-road (on-track) performance of my personal bikes, I use a wideband UEGO unit from WBO2. This unit is compact and allows a wide band oxygen sensor to be used in the stock location while sending a narrow band signal to the ECU. Homertrix (on the t595 board) has written a nice application called tuneanalyzer.exe that can help to tune to a specific air-fuel ratio. You can download it from the download section of the site, but you may need to be a premier (paid) member. You may even be able to contact him to get a copy - he is the UK Tuneboy dealer. http://www.tuneboy.co.uk/

By using a laptop to log data from the WBO2 unit, and logging from a good accelerometer or VERY FAST GPS, I can bypass my uncalibrated sphincter dyno, and get very good results. Sometimes the results are so good that I am forced to de-tune the bike to keep it hooked to the road or track.

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Forgive the rant, but I hope it has encouraged some to do a bit of research into the subject, while providing a bit of usefull information.

-WT



"Question EVERYTHING, especially your own results" -Henry "Smokey" Yunick
"Without results, you only have an opinion like everyone else" -unknown
"I don't have an opinion, I have a dyno" -David Vizard

Great post, WT! This should be post of the year, or at least a sticky.

Even the "tunes" that come with kits (like the TTS supercharger) are way off. IMO, anyone installing a major mod like FA induction should have a wide band AF indicator and data logger before installing an FA kit. I use the WEGO2 from Daytona Sensors.

For the record, I didn't buy my dyno to become a tuner. I bought it because it was the most cost effective way of facilitating my continuing modifications to my R3, and to help my local shop. I now have a dyno available right down the road from the farm, to test and tune any changes I may make. Previously, the nearest dyno was 2 hours away. We've already used it 20+ hours on my bike, and we're not even into timing changes yet. So between saving huge dollars on dyno time, and profits from the shop tuning other bikes... my small investment pays handsomely (I also get all my parts and gear at dealer cost now). Being involved in the tuning process, I'm learning much more about my current "hobby". Knowledge is my passion, and I enjoy learning. You are so right about different engines "liking" different AF ratios. It was fascinating to see the HP/TQ curves change as we tried different AF ratios. IMO, the "big" numbers at the end are a big illusion... it's area under the torque curve that counts.

I have no illusions about ever being a "tuner"... I'll leave that to guys with far more experience in this field, that work by the hour.

Hombre,
Internet forums have made me hate the term "tuner"... in case it wasn't obvious.

I am simply frustrated with the spread of bad information today, and especially with businesses taking advantage of their customers hard earned money. The only cure for this is making others more knowledgeable, and sharing what we all have learned the hard way.

I am very close to opening up my services, equipment (including dyno, flow bench, machine work, etc.), experience, and time to others outside a small circle of friends and associates. I want to shine a bright light on those who hide in the shadows, and prey on the misinformed.

Like you, I bought a dyno to work on my own bikes after I became very disilussioned with the quality of work and knowledge I was getting from other so called 'trained professionals'. While I have gained a lot of experiance and information over the years, I still find myself learning on a daily basis.

It will take a serious effort (and a thick skin) from many of us to help educate others. And from what I see, you are a big benefit to this site. I hope to become so as well.

W. Where are you located? I'm in need of some services, to optimize my pipe and intake changes... you may be closer to me then Hombre.....

If not I'll eventually be headign up to his AO for some work, I'll definitly need soem remapping if I get the cams I want....

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WT I agree with what you are saying, however the quick mods of tunes and swapping of tunes at least gets the bike in the ball park. Just by copying the ignition maps for 3-5th gears into the maps for 1st and 2nd makes a noticeable difference. Opening the secondaries up makes even more.

Most of us are hobbyists. Some more serious than others (Hombre for example). My goal is a smooth running bike with moderate increases in performance.

I picked up a pretty substantial gain by using a "canned" tune and was able to get 6 hp and 8 ft lbs more by a good dyno tune via PCIII. I then imported the PCIII map into Tuneboy.

I have tried the tune anaylizer program but have had problems getting it to open and function. There is a datalogging function with Tuneboy and Wayne will format it to include whatever you desire.

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There is no replacement for displacement.

Regulator,
I am located in the Birmingham, AL area - about 4.5 hours from Augusta.
Contact me when you want to do some work and maybe we can set something up. I am pretty well covered up right now, but depending on your time frame, we can likely work something out.

Pig9r,
I have no issue with swapping tunes - in fact, I like the fact that you have put together an area on the forum just for this. My issue is that many expect the results to be better than they tend to be. Not everyone wants more performance from their R3, and this is fine. My reason for the thread was to inform others what to expect, and how to improve their results.

I talked at length to Derek at moto-lab in redwood city, CA.

http://www.moto-lab.com/

Ditto what you said. Real performance tuning is a major engineering endeavor.

OTOH, the canned Tuneboy map works fine for me.